ONLY for those that have seen S7E6 - Disappointed?

WotW Spoiler Town, with extensive Game of Thrones Season 8 Spoilers including major leaks, filming spoilers, photos and all. Consider yourself warned!
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PulledGroin
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:16 pm

BeardedOnion wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:50 pm
I'll start off by saying this episode, overall, is strong as hell and has some of the best interactions in the entire show. It's given Jon seriously great moments and fleshes out characters needing it. It forwards the plot ALOT and evens the odds for the Undead.

However. What happened to Sansa last year with her not telling Jon about the Vale has happened to Arya but arguably even worse.

Sansa has done nothing but do what Jon has asked her to do, rule in his place. She's focusing on food, keeping the lords happy and preparing for winter. She keeps saying all the time how much she wants Jon back (AFTER begging him to stay), she offered Bran rule instantly.

Then Arya comes, assumes the worst despite treating the lords just how Jon would have in her situation, falls for LF's plot, acts like a huge hypocrite about "serving" the Lannisters and threatens to destroy all of Sansa's and Jon's work over a dumb letter written by a navie child who believed she was helping father. She then THREATENS to fucking kill Sansa over it and wear her face. This is completely disgusting on her part and it makes her unhinged, moronic and untrue to herself. Much like how Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale despite giving Jon Stark robes, calling him a Stark, giving him WF when offered it and supporting him throughout S7. The only one undermining Jon is Arya right now.

It seems like Sansa and Arya both get turned into unlikable, retarded assholes for no good reason, more so than any other main, just for pointless tension. These girls are clearly meant to be intelligent, pragmatic and extremely caring to their family. Please treat them like they are all the time and not some of the time.

It also makes me question just how important to the overall plot D&D claim they are, since they have zero build up or foreshadowing for the undead war, aren't present at the KL meet up and had their stories butchered at times (s5 for Sansa and S6 for Arya).

I still love this show with all my heart, but god damn my favourite characters get it rough sometimes.
We will have to agree to disagree on the overall strength of the episode, but I too have been disappointed with Sansa in particular. I think her high point in the game was in...uh...season 3 or 4 when she defends LF after murdering her aunt. Up to that point she was learning and finally assessed the situation and made a calculated adult decision. Ever since then it seems to me she has been backsliding into the clueless girl, with a few random sporadic exceptions. Maybe if she would get some damn "little birds" like Cercei, Varys, and LF, she would be able to work at their level, but with 7 episodes left, I don't see that happening unfortunately. (Unless Bran fills that role)

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Jack Bauer 24
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:23 pm

I though this was the most visually stunning episode of the series?

BeardedOnion
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:33 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:26 pm

PulledGroin wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:16 pm
BeardedOnion wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:50 pm
I'll start off by saying this episode, overall, is strong as hell and has some of the best interactions in the entire show. It's given Jon seriously great moments and fleshes out characters needing it. It forwards the plot ALOT and evens the odds for the Undead.

However. What happened to Sansa last year with her not telling Jon about the Vale has happened to Arya but arguably even worse.

Sansa has done nothing but do what Jon has asked her to do, rule in his place. She's focusing on food, keeping the lords happy and preparing for winter. She keeps saying all the time how much she wants Jon back (AFTER begging him to stay), she offered Bran rule instantly.

Then Arya comes, assumes the worst despite treating the lords just how Jon would have in her situation, falls for LF's plot, acts like a huge hypocrite about "serving" the Lannisters and threatens to destroy all of Sansa's and Jon's work over a dumb letter written by a navie child who believed she was helping father. She then THREATENS to fucking kill Sansa over it and wear her face. This is completely disgusting on her part and it makes her unhinged, moronic and untrue to herself. Much like how Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale despite giving Jon Stark robes, calling him a Stark, giving him WF when offered it and supporting him throughout S7. The only one undermining Jon is Arya right now.

It seems like Sansa and Arya both get turned into unlikable, retarded assholes for no good reason, more so than any other main, just for pointless tension. These girls are clearly meant to be intelligent, pragmatic and extremely caring to their family. Please treat them like they are all the time and not some of the time.

It also makes me question just how important to the overall plot D&D claim they are, since they have zero build up or foreshadowing for the undead war, aren't present at the KL meet up and had their stories butchered at times (s5 for Sansa and S6 for Arya).

I still love this show with all my heart, but god damn my favourite characters get it rough sometimes.
We will have to agree to disagree on the overall strength of the episode, but I too have been disappointed with Sansa in particular. I think her high point in the game was in...uh...season 3 or 4 when she defends LF after murdering her aunt. Up to that point she was learning and finally assessed the situation and made a calculated adult decision. Ever since then it seems to me she has been backsliding into the clueless girl, with a few random sporadic exceptions. Maybe if she would get some damn "little birds" like Cercei, Varys, and LF, she would be able to work at their level, but with 7 episodes left, I don't see that happening unfortunately. (Unless Bran fills that role)
Nah she's been strong these past 2 seasons. Everyone tells her how strong she is ruling and both Jon and Tyrion agree she is very bright. She's not meant to be the clueless girl, not anymore. Any reason you might think otherwise is due to the producers failing to get that across but I don't think they have this season. Arya though? They made her seem like she's learnt jack. She can't read Sansa for shit, got tricked by LF and the Waif and is blind to the fact she's fucking things up for Jon. I'll still say Arya is still a character that's learned alot and is very capable but who's been neglected by the show time to time.

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PulledGroin
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:29 pm

BeardedOnion wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:26 pm
PulledGroin wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:16 pm
BeardedOnion wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:50 pm
I'll start off by saying this episode, overall, is strong as hell and has some of the best interactions in the entire show. It's given Jon seriously great moments and fleshes out characters needing it. It forwards the plot ALOT and evens the odds for the Undead.

However. What happened to Sansa last year with her not telling Jon about the Vale has happened to Arya but arguably even worse.

Sansa has done nothing but do what Jon has asked her to do, rule in his place. She's focusing on food, keeping the lords happy and preparing for winter. She keeps saying all the time how much she wants Jon back (AFTER begging him to stay), she offered Bran rule instantly.

Then Arya comes, assumes the worst despite treating the lords just how Jon would have in her situation, falls for LF's plot, acts like a huge hypocrite about "serving" the Lannisters and threatens to destroy all of Sansa's and Jon's work over a dumb letter written by a navie child who believed she was helping father. She then THREATENS to fucking kill Sansa over it and wear her face. This is completely disgusting on her part and it makes her unhinged, moronic and untrue to herself. Much like how Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale despite giving Jon Stark robes, calling him a Stark, giving him WF when offered it and supporting him throughout S7. The only one undermining Jon is Arya right now.

It seems like Sansa and Arya both get turned into unlikable, retarded assholes for no good reason, more so than any other main, just for pointless tension. These girls are clearly meant to be intelligent, pragmatic and extremely caring to their family. Please treat them like they are all the time and not some of the time.

It also makes me question just how important to the overall plot D&D claim they are, since they have zero build up or foreshadowing for the undead war, aren't present at the KL meet up and had their stories butchered at times (s5 for Sansa and S6 for Arya).

I still love this show with all my heart, but god damn my favourite characters get it rough sometimes.
We will have to agree to disagree on the overall strength of the episode, but I too have been disappointed with Sansa in particular. I think her high point in the game was in...uh...season 3 or 4 when she defends LF after murdering her aunt. Up to that point she was learning and finally assessed the situation and made a calculated adult decision. Ever since then it seems to me she has been backsliding into the clueless girl, with a few random sporadic exceptions. Maybe if she would get some damn "little birds" like Cercei, Varys, and LF, she would be able to work at their level, but with 7 episodes left, I don't see that happening unfortunately. (Unless Bran fills that role)
Nah she's been strong these past 2 seasons. Everyone tells her how strong she is ruling and both Jon and Tyrion agree she is very bright. She's not meant to be the clueless girl, not anymore. Any reason you might think otherwise is due to the producers failing to get that across but I don't think they have this season. Arya though? They made her seem like she's learnt jack. She can't read Sansa for shit, got tricked by LF and the Waif and is blind to the fact she's fucking things up for Jon. I'll still say Arya is still a character that's learned alot and is very capable but who's been neglected by the show time to time.
Ok, I'll agree with that.

Jon Snowed
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:40 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:36 pm

I have mixed feelings on the is episode, I thought Arya/Maisie was superb and she terrifies Sansa and I thought she would kill her, that scene has some real tension unlike the majority of what happens up north.

This episode was just such a mixed bag, some amazing dialogue, amazing visuals, top notch CGI but let down by some poor writing, huge plot holes which are just so out of place with the high standards which are set. It's almost like taking the Dorne scenes in S5 and placing them in Hardholme, you'd get the same sensation.

Violator
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:14 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:37 pm

Bloody good episode. I watched three times back to back and I'm not in the slightest disappointed in it.

The Winterfell scenes were very well written so that criticism strikes me as odd as well.

You might have problems with the plot there which I agree seems a bit domestic when you consider the challenges that the other characters are facing, but frankly it's all they can do. They need to create something engaging in that part of the world while other characters are doing bigger things and pieces are being moved into place.

The relationship between Sansa and Arya doesn't seem unusual. Arya simply doesn't really like Sansa that much and when you combine personality clashes that have been there since childhood with very real paranoia and stress, then you can get two women playing out their sibling rivalry very easily. At least it's a bit more interesting than a Stark 'group hug' for six episodes.

In the end what will bring them together is family and the knowledge that no matter their differences, they are much stronger standing together. That will be a great scene to watch.

And the banter between the characters north of the wall was ace! The Hound and Giantsbane are a duo made in heaven - they really bounce off one another.

I'm still not certain why Gendry is there though other than pure fan service - which is okay, but it's silly.

Jon Snowed
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:40 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:39 pm

I definitely enjoyed the episode more on the second viewing but still annoyed by some of the big plot holes that distract from the story telling or did for me.

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PulledGroin
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:49 pm

Violator wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:37 pm
Bloody good episode. I watched three times back to back and I'm not in the slightest disappointed in it.

The Winterfell scenes were very well written so that criticism strikes me as odd as well.

You might have problems with the plot there which I agree seems a bit domestic when you consider the challenges that the other characters are facing, but frankly it's all they can do. They need to create something engaging in that part of the world while other characters are doing bigger things and pieces are being moved into place.

The relationship between Sansa and Arya doesn't seem unusual. Arya simply doesn't really like Sansa that much and when you combine personality clashes that have been there since childhood with very real paranoia and stress, then you can get two women playing out their sibling rivalry very easily. At least it's a bit more interesting than a Stark 'group hug' for six episodes.

In the end what will bring them together is family and the knowledge that no matter their differences, they are much stronger standing together. That will be a great scene to watch.

And the banter between the characters north of the wall was ace! The Hound and Giantsbane are a duo made in heaven - they really bounce off one another.

I'm still not certain why Gendry is there though other than pure fan service - which is okay, but it's silly.
I agree with you that most the scenes of the episode, taking separately, are good, but when they stitched them together, it turned sour. As the above post states, its much more like Dorne in the North. Dorne had some good individual scenes - and a few bad ones - but taken as a whole...well you should get where I'm coming from.

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PulledGroin
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:52 pm

Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:34 pm
Pigeon wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:32 pm
I really liked this episode. My only 3 puzzlement were:

1. How did the Hound recover so well from that massive leg injury?

2. I don't care if he is magic, the NK throwing a spear upwards at that velocity from a standing position at a moving target is a bit much. Then totally miss Drogon.

3. I would have liked to see Drogon attempt to roast the NK and his sidekicks.
I thought Drogon does attack or was that just wights?
1. Ian McShane has magical healing powers
2. Agree
3. Drogon was a taxi as stated, but I agree the other 2 should have attacked the guy with the ice crown on his head :D

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:19 pm

I think all the people upset about Arya and Sansa's relationship are just upset their reunion isn't some fairytale. Arya and Sansa have never gotten along and people seem to forget this. Sansa is the girl who once said she loved Geoffrey, who lied to protect him, got the butcher's boy killed, and her own wolf killed in season 1. I've always wondered if her wolf dying had some symbolism to it in that the 'wolf' or 'stark' in Sansa is dead.

Regardless, internal family drama is good story telling and not out of this world. It happened with the Targaryens as well, and it is realistic in a real life sense.

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