ONLY for those that have seen S7E6 - Disappointed?

WotW Spoiler Town, with extensive Game of Thrones Season 8 Spoilers including major leaks, filming spoilers, photos and all. Consider yourself warned!
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Violator
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:14 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:23 pm

PulledGroin wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am
Mau mau wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:41 am
I completely understand where this conflict between Arya and Sansa is comming from and I really don't think it is forced. GRRM himself said that they will have to resolve some things between them. This is it.

I mean, Arya didn't have a good relationship with Sansa before. She betrayed her for Joffrey. Later, she knows that Sansa was married to a Lannister and a Bolton. She doesn't know the context. She knew that before she came to WF.

Sansa is now keeping LF in WF. She thinks that Sansa is not that harsh in defending Jon and she sees that Sansa has ambitions and she does think that she should be QITN. She then sees that Sansa is trying to hide a latter, so it just proves her further that Sansa is afraid that that would ruin her reputation in the North, which means that she wants to turn lords on her side. Arya knows that Jon wouldn't be angry because of that lattter, so it has to be Northern lords. And she saw Sansa trying to find that latter in Arya's room, so there is no reason for her to believe that LF lyied to Wolkan.

On the other hand, for Sansa Arya seems like a person she doesn't know. She has a list of people she is going to kill, she seems like a really dangerous fighter, she has faces of dead people,... We know that Sansa more than anything else wants respect, and she thinks Arya is not respecting her at all. The point is, Arya seems like a very unpredictable and strange person.
I agree with what you are saying, but my issue, and again this may be my personal bias, is that when do three siblings who haven't seen each other for years not sit down and have a beer and talk about what they have been doing? It's like going to Thanksgiving, saying "sup" to your bro who got just back from Afghanistan and just keep on walking to the kitchen.

I would loved to have had a scene where the three of them are sitting by the fire, drinking, and telling stories...

Bran, "Hodor"

Sansa, "My second husband was kind of an asshole and my wedding night sucked, oh and Theon watched."

Arya, "I killed a girl and used her face (or stole a face from the faceless men - can't recall exactly), and pretended to be a child prostitute so I could stab a pedo King's Guard in the eyes.

*all three laugh hysterically*

My point is if they just sat around and talked a bit, none of this "tension" would exist. They would realize they have all been through some stuff and would strengthen their sibling bond.

For example, the writers have somehow managed to make the Lannister siblings more trusting/functional of each other than the Stark siblings at this point in the story...because they talked some shit out. Not a perfect comparison but I think you will get where I am coming from.

Granted, assuming what we think happens in Ep 7, this will all get worked out when...they talk to each other...lol.
Well, I think we all know by now that a lot of this season has been written backwards. There was an idea about where the story would be by the end and then the writers have written in the plausible and the illogical to get the story to where they want in to be as quickly as possible.

It's led to what is easily the most 'crowd pleasing' season of them all, but also the most nonsense one.

I don't think this will necessarily continue. D&D obviously have a clear idea about how the S8 will go and where the pieces need to be, but by the end of S6 they still weren't anywhere near those positions. What they've done in the show is fudge it and ask for the audience to suspend disbelief while they get things sorted out for the final act. In the books, Martin is faced with a similar dilemma but he can't and won;t do what the show has done so he's stuck with how to start bringing things to a close and I'm not entirely sure he is interested in doing that anymore.

BeardedOnion
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:33 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:22 pm

LufkinAg wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:12 pm
BeardedOnion wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:40 pm
Mau mau wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:47 am



Arya assumes the worst because that makes sense. Sansa isn't defending Jon that much, she can see on her face that Sansa thinks that they are right, that she should have been Queen. She keeps LF around. Arya is trying to scare Sansa to see her loyalty. And Sansa has history of betraying her family in the past.
How should she defend him? By alienating her allies?

Also Sansa hasn't betrayed her family once on the show.

She betrayed her family in season one and took Jeoffrey side when she lied about what happened. She didn't have the integrity to just tell the truth because it would make her fantasy boy look like a wuss and coward we all knew. It cost the Butcher's boy his life, Arya her wolf and the life of her own wolf. She stabbed her family in the back that day.
Uh. How did she betray her family there? She told Ned told the truth beforehand and said she did the right thing and Arya understood why after.

Blame Ned, not Sansa because he said she's doing everything he taught her. Sansa has not betrayed her family once.

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QueenofThrones
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:43 pm
Location: New York

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:40 pm

I watched the leaked episode because I'll be on vacation w/o internet this weekend. I don't know any other spoilers so I'm pretty scared to post here TBH (definitely staying away from those other topics yikes)! But man that episode was SO awesome I just have to gush somewhere...

Winterfell: Arya is chilling as fuck. Wow. I actually like it though probably only because Arya is not my fave and I thought she was going to go darker this season so I was honestly a little disappointed that she turned north and the reunion in ep. 4 was so... sweet. Arya is correct that Sansa does want the power. Arya is morally uncompromising. She does not accept that Sansa can be helpful to Jon if she has desires that conflict with Jons'. Hence, Sansa needs to be watched, controlled, and even killed if necessary. Of course, this is exactly the wrong thing to do against someone like Sansa - someone who has survived this far by doing and saying whatever she has to do. As has Arya - but of course neither of them would admit that the others' struggles are as real as their own. This feels organic given where they were when the parted. Sansa is not about to let Arya compromise her safety "no one can protect anyone". Sansa's conversation with Littlefinger and later sending Brienne to KL reveal that she is willing to pre-emptively stop Arya - with violence if need be. LF suggests she keep Brienne close since she has to defend both Stark girls. Sansa sending her off signals that she wants Brienne to be gone so that no one will defend Arya if that time comes. My only quibble was sending Brienne off was somewhat abrupt. But it's fine - whatever gets me Jaime and Brienne in the same place is good in my book. I do wonder if the letter Sansa supposedly received was forged by her. Winterfell has unexpectedly become my 2nd most anticipated plotline and I'm glad Jon didn't go home because he'd just resolve this too quickly.

7 samurai wight hunters / DRAGONS vs WW?!: Overall feel was somewhat anticlimactic that after all that we only lost Thoros and some red shirts. I was ready for Jorah and Tormund to die and break my heart. Thoros' death was awesome though - you never have a guy get injured then to just freeze to death a few scenes later. I do like that Thoros is gone in that at least going forward there wont' be any more resurrections. Some other cute scenes here. The Longclaw scene was everything to me aaaallll of the Jorah Mormont feels. Please let Jorah meet his little fierce cousin. I also enjoyed the Tormund / Hound banter about Brienne, though felt like some of the other "humor" was a bit sexist/fratboyish. But, meh. Dany rescue was the very first scene where I was trying to calculate distances / times while I was watching (I mean they basically invited it!!). It was incredible. I have been waiting for 18 years for Wights being killed by Dragons and it was SO WORTH IT. Then on top of it ZOMBIE DRAGON?! This was totally unexpected for me. I am sad that Tyrion will not be a dragon rider. Viserion x Tyrion was my human x dragon OTP. ; __ ; The Jon and Dany boat conversation was incredibly EMOTIONAL!! Wow. Those two acted the fuck out of that scene. I am officially Jonaerys Trash. I do think they need to lighten the fuck up though if they want to be happy long term...

Tyrion / Dany convo: I am trying to figure Tyrion's motivations. "NO don't use your dragons for what they are FOR its' too dangerous?!" Maybe Tyrion really is in love with Dany like some pre season spec was saying... And I suppose Dany is now his only hope for any kind of life, so he's pretty wedded to her survival. I did like the part of the earlier conversation where Tyrion finally pointed out that Dany should maybe consider who will be her heir, or what happens after her since she can't have kids. It does seem like Dany is planning to sit the IT rather than "break the wheel" entirely. Of course, who knows maybe she'll just use her reign as a way to transition to democracy or something - I suspect based on what Tyrion was saying about the Night's Watch he'd be in favor of that, but then why wouldn't she just say "oh yeah we'll have elections... but first we have to get rid of Cersei..." Felt a bit unsatisfied by the whole thing but I think Tyrion will see a changed Dany after this episode, and hopefully there will be a bit more mission clarity overall.

CravenRaven
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:10 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:49 pm

I don't see why people have a problem with the Arya Sansa scenes.
Arya has always been a complete hot head, and will hold onto a grudge till her grave.
Never have I seen her abandon this aspect of her character, so it makes sense she'd still be carrying these ill feelings towards Sansa.

The scroll thing was a bit overly convenient, but I'll forgive it.

Pigeon
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:44 am

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:52 pm

CravenRaven wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:49 pm
I don't see why people have a problem with the Arya Sansa scenes.
Arya has always been a complete hot head, and will hold onto a grudge till her grave.
Never have I seen her abandon this aspect of her character, so it makes sense she'd still be carrying these ill feelings towards Sansa.

The scroll thing was a bit overly convenient, but I'll forgive it.
I thought the scenes were pretty great, actually, and Maisie and Sophie really kicked it up a notch.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:02 pm

PulledGroin wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:37 am
Mau mau wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:41 am
I completely understand where this conflict between Arya and Sansa is comming from and I really don't think it is forced. GRRM himself said that they will have to resolve some things between them. This is it.

I mean, Arya didn't have a good relationship with Sansa before. She betrayed her for Joffrey. Later, she knows that Sansa was married to a Lannister and a Bolton. She doesn't know the context. She knew that before she came to WF.

Sansa is now keeping LF in WF. She thinks that Sansa is not that harsh in defending Jon and she sees that Sansa has ambitions and she does think that she should be QITN. She then sees that Sansa is trying to hide a latter, so it just proves her further that Sansa is afraid that that would ruin her reputation in the North, which means that she wants to turn lords on her side. Arya knows that Jon wouldn't be angry because of that lattter, so it has to be Northern lords. And she saw Sansa trying to find that latter in Arya's room, so there is no reason for her to believe that LF lyied to Wolkan.

On the other hand, for Sansa Arya seems like a person she doesn't know. She has a list of people she is going to kill, she seems like a really dangerous fighter, she has faces of dead people,... We know that Sansa more than anything else wants respect, and she thinks Arya is not respecting her at all. The point is, Arya seems like a very unpredictable and strange person.
I agree with what you are saying, but my issue, and again this may be my personal bias, is that when do three siblings who haven't seen each other for years not sit down and have a beer and talk about what they have been doing? It's like going to Thanksgiving, saying "sup" to your bro who got just back from Afghanistan and just keep on walking to the kitchen.

I would loved to have had a scene where the three of them are sitting by the fire, drinking, and telling stories...

Bran, "Hodor"

Sansa, "My second husband was kind of an asshole and my wedding night sucked, oh and Theon watched."

Arya, "I killed a girl and used her face (or stole a face from the faceless men - can't recall exactly), and pretended to be a child prostitute so I could stab a pedo King's Guard in the eyes.

*all three laugh hysterically*

My point is if they just sat around and talked a bit, none of this "tension" would exist. They would realize they have all been through some stuff and would strengthen their sibling bond.

For example, the writers have somehow managed to make the Lannister siblings more trusting/functional of each other than the Stark siblings at this point in the story...because they talked some shit out. Not a perfect comparison but I think you will get where I am coming from.

Granted, assuming what we think happens in Ep 7, this will all get worked out when...they talk to each other...lol.
I urge you to re-watch the first season again or reread a bit of the books. Sansa and Arya never got along. Sansa even bullied Jon, but Jon easily forgives her as building bridges is a strength of his character. Bran is also not the Bran we knew anymore. Even if he was, he and Arya fought a lot as children. His strongest relationship was also with Jon. Frankly, the Stark children were real bratty save for Jon and Robb.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:10 pm

[/quote]
Uh. How did she betray her family there? [/quote]

She lied and said she didn't know what she saw when she was asked by King Robert. This led him to accepting Cersei and Joffrey's version of the story over Arya's. The butcher's boy and Sansa's wolf are killed as a result.

[/quote] She told Ned told the truth beforehand and said she did the right thing [/quote]

No, she didn't. Ned understood anyways and told Arya sometimes Sansa will have to protect Joffrey. Regardless, good thing Sansa's wolf was killed and not Arya's. Sansa got her own wolf killed while Arya saved hers. Maybe that has some significance going forward in that the wolf or 'stark' in Sansa is dead. After all she is techincally a Lannister/Bolton now with two marriages. The writers have made Sansa suffer continuously since this episode.

Meg22
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:24 am

Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:39 pm

Agree re. Sansa's so-called betrayal. She was doing what she was trained to do and that's be loyal and supportive of her husband which Joffrey was going to be. Blame her family for betrothing her to such a dick.

Blackfyre_72
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:49 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:09 pm

I watched the episode and i'm a little disappointed.

From a technical point of view this was a stunning episode to watch, I really hope this is the season that give GoT an Emmy win for Cinematography, it was tense with some beautiful moments but I feel the writing fail big time; look, I rolled my eyes every time i see the word "teleportation" but Gendry running to Eastwach By The Sea, sending a raven to Dragonstone and Danaerys arriving just in time to save the day is just too much, it would have been better if Dany decided herself to go Beyond the Wall and would have made more sense given her previous conversation with Tyrion.

I liked a lot the Winterfell plot because finally someone see the whole picture regarding Sansa... Sansa telling that Jon lost the BOB and that she won should be proof enough that she wannted Jon to die that day and that's why she never told him about the army of the Knights of The Vale, remember that look she had when she saw Jon running after Ramsay...Arya is right, Sansa wants Jon's Crown.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:29 pm

Blackfyre_72 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:09 pm

it would have been better if Dany decided herself to go Beyond the Wall and would have made more sense given her previous conversation with Tyrion.
I was thinking exactly this. I fear they have rushed this season despite HBO begging them to produce more episodes. The fault for this lies squarely on the shoulders of D&D.

Edit: Also, it would have made more sense if they sent the Hound back carrying the wight with the team following them and defending the Hound's back. Dany flying over just because of nervs or something and in the end making the right, even heroic decision, to go north would have been much better.

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