Season 7 Pacing

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Jack Bauer 24
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:49 pm

LebronBMT wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:22 pm
Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:01 am
How does everyone feel about the pacing? Should there have been 10 episodes? I know they say the story only called for 7, but I think it was budget reasons. Spent so much on 704 and 706 they couldn't do 10. Same thing next season. Only 6 episodes because they'll be even more expensive then these.
As someone just reminded me, the original cast was under contract for 6 seasons. So for the seventh they all negotiated new, better contracts that get them paid per episode. Big surprise, D&D/HBO in response have decided to produce less (but longer) episodes for seasons 7 and 8. It's the actors' fault.
The episodes really aren't much longer.

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Needle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:10 am

LebronBMT wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:20 pm
Needle wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:19 am
It's possible to tell a story in 7 episodes, if it wasn't then movies wouldn't exist. But D&D are doing such a horrid job at it, it gives the illusion that the plot is moving too quickly at times.
The Winterfell plot feels entirely like unnecessary filler, which is so fucking unnerving because Sansa, Bran and Arya are all main characters we know from the very beginning. Instead of idiotic sibling rivalry, here are ideas for storylines that I can think of just from the top of my head:

- All three of them adjusting to living in Winterfell without their parents and everyone else they knew. Wouldn't you feel weird if you came back to the place you grew up in, only to realise everyone you knew was replaced? All of the known Winterfell residents are dead. Jory, Rodrik, Luwin, all of the people the Stark kids grew up with.
- Bran coping with becoming the TER, I don't know about you guys, but if my brain suddenly had access to everything that had ever happened, I would break down.
- Sansa and Arya bonding, and realising how much they had both changed.
- And if they still want to go with the 'LF trying to get rid of Arya' route, they could at least write it a lot smarter. Why would Arya turn on her sister just because of an old letter? How did Arya not see through this obvious and lazy scheme? Have LF actually dig up information on Arya, watch her in secret and figure out alone where she had been, and then use it against her. If he suddenly revealed to Sansa that Arya had trained at the HOBAW to be a Faceless Assassin, Sansa might have actually started to fear her and consider her an unpredictable threat.

The writing for this subplot is so unbelievably awful, it boggles my mind. At this point the most logical explanation is that D&D hate these three Starks for some reason and just bullshitted their plots as result.

So many people are concerned that 7 or 6 episodes is too little, but in reality they could've added so much more. For the life of me I don't understand D&D's insistence on using screentime they don't have anyway for pointless scenes that don't add anything to the plot.
The Arya/Sansa plot is fine and just a continuation of their hostilities towards each other since season 1. They are both staying within character. It seems to bug a lot of fans that when united the Starks aren't some fairytale perfect family, but rather just like any other bickering family. This is the family that bullied Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy don't forget that. Mainly Catelyn Stark and Sansa did this, and Sansa takes after her mother the most. Sansa even messed with Old Nan, Bran, and of course Arya.
They've all grown up, you can see this when Sansa asked Jon to forgive her. After everything they have all been through, all of them realised they love each other and need to stick together. Back in Braavos, when Arya watched the play, when she thought Tyrion was abusing Sansa she was sad and angry. In the books she constantly says things like "I would even dress up like a lady if it meant seeing Sansa again".
So you're telling me that after 4-5 years of being apart after a massive tragedy, and not knowig whether or not the other is alive, the first thing Arya does when coming back home is fighting with Sansa? I understand what D&D tried to do, they tried to make Arya be suspicious of Sansa because she thinks she will betray Jon, which is understandable, but the execution is terrible. Instead of actually giving Arya valid points to make, and showing Sansa doing things that might actually come off as suspicious, they made Arya unneccessarily mean and cryptic. That seems to be their theme nowadays, making one character look bad in order to make people like the other character. What happened to having two interesting sides, and letting the viewer decide which one they're on?
They did this to Sansa, too. When she wanted to kick two kids out of their ancestral home for something their parents did, which is something Sansa would never do, she's smarter that that. It was all for the sake of some cheap ~conflict~, same goes with what's happening now.
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LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:21 am

Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:49 pm
LebronBMT wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:22 pm
Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:01 am
How does everyone feel about the pacing? Should there have been 10 episodes? I know they say the story only called for 7, but I think it was budget reasons. Spent so much on 704 and 706 they couldn't do 10. Same thing next season. Only 6 episodes because they'll be even more expensive then these.
As someone just reminded me, the original cast was under contract for 6 seasons. So for the seventh they all negotiated new, better contracts that get them paid per episode. Big surprise, D&D/HBO in response have decided to produce less (but longer) episodes for seasons 7 and 8. It's the actors' fault.
The episodes really aren't much longer.
From Episode 6 onwards they will be. Season 8 episodes are slated to be almost 2 hours each.

Sam the Slayer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:05 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:42 am

Do we really believe that? If every S8 episode is 2 hours, that'd mean the season will basically consist of 12 regular episodes. Which is exactly the thing the show never did because it cost too much time and money.

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PulledGroin
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:12 am

Sam the Slayer wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:42 am
Do we really believe that? If every S8 episode is 2 hours, that'd mean the season will basically consist of 12 regular episodes. Which is exactly the thing the show never did because it cost too much time and money.
I seriously doubt they will be two hours each, more like 70-80-90 minute range. Granted, still longer than the "regular" 55 min or so standard, but probably not enough to make up for 4 episodes. The time of the episode also includes the intro and the credits, which are about 5 minutes. Like this last ep is stated to be 71 minutes, but cut out the intro and the credits and its only about 65 minutes.

Lorig1964
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:51 am

Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Needle wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:10 am
LebronBMT wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:20 pm
Needle wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:19 am
It's possible to tell a story in 7 episodes, if it wasn't then movies wouldn't exist. But D&D are doing such a horrid job at it, it gives the illusion that the plot is moving too quickly at times.
The Winterfell plot feels entirely like unnecessary filler, which is so fucking unnerving because Sansa, Bran and Arya are all main characters we know from the very beginning. Instead of idiotic sibling rivalry, here are ideas for storylines that I can think of just from the top of my head:

- All three of them adjusting to living in Winterfell without their parents and everyone else they knew. Wouldn't you feel weird if you came back to the place you grew up in, only to realise everyone you knew was replaced? All of the known Winterfell residents are dead. Jory, Rodrik, Luwin, all of the people the Stark kids grew up with.
- Bran coping with becoming the TER, I don't know about you guys, but if my brain suddenly had access to everything that had ever happened, I would break down.
- Sansa and Arya bonding, and realising how much they had both changed.
- And if they still want to go with the 'LF trying to get rid of Arya' route, they could at least write it a lot smarter. Why would Arya turn on her sister just because of an old letter? How did Arya not see through this obvious and lazy scheme? Have LF actually dig up information on Arya, watch her in secret and figure out alone where she had been, and then use it against her. If he suddenly revealed to Sansa that Arya had trained at the HOBAW to be a Faceless Assassin, Sansa might have actually started to fear her and consider her an unpredictable threat.

The writing for this subplot is so unbelievably awful, it boggles my mind. At this point the most logical explanation is that D&D hate these three Starks for some reason and just bullshitted their plots as result.

So many people are concerned that 7 or 6 episodes is too little, but in reality they could've added so much more. For the life of me I don't understand D&D's insistence on using screentime they don't have anyway for pointless scenes that don't add anything to the plot.
The Arya/Sansa plot is fine and just a continuation of their hostilities towards each other since season 1. They are both staying within character. It seems to bug a lot of fans that when united the Starks aren't some fairytale perfect family, but rather just like any other bickering family. This is the family that bullied Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy don't forget that. Mainly Catelyn Stark and Sansa did this, and Sansa takes after her mother the most. Sansa even messed with Old Nan, Bran, and of course Arya.
They've all grown up, you can see this when Sansa asked Jon to forgive her. After everything they have all been through, all of them realised they love each other and need to stick together. Back in Braavos, when Arya watched the play, when she thought Tyrion was abusing Sansa she was sad and angry. In the books she constantly says things like "I would even dress up like a lady if it meant seeing Sansa again".
So you're telling me that after 4-5 years of being apart after a massive tragedy, and not knowig whether or not the other is alive, the first thing Arya does when coming back home is fighting with Sansa? I understand what D&D tried to do, they tried to make Arya be suspicious of Sansa because she thinks she will betray Jon, which is understandable, but the execution is terrible. Instead of actually giving Arya valid points to make, and showing Sansa doing things that might actually come off as suspicious, they made Arya unneccessarily mean and cryptic. That seems to be their theme nowadays, making one character look bad in order to make people like the other character. What happened to having two interesting sides, and letting the viewer decide which one they're on?
They did this to Sansa, too. When she wanted to kick two kids out of their ancestral home for something their parents did, which is something Sansa would never do, she's smarter that that. It was all for the sake of some cheap ~conflict~, same goes with what's happening now.
So we'll said. I couldn't put it into words but knew something wasn't right about the way everything was unfolding. Seriously disappointed with episode 6. I'll watch it again at the official airing on Sunday just to reexamine but a lot of filler when we don't have a lot of time left.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:34 pm

Needle wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:10 am
LebronBMT wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:20 pm
Needle wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:19 am
It's possible to tell a story in 7 episodes, if it wasn't then movies wouldn't exist. But D&D are doing such a horrid job at it, it gives the illusion that the plot is moving too quickly at times.
The Winterfell plot feels entirely like unnecessary filler, which is so fucking unnerving because Sansa, Bran and Arya are all main characters we know from the very beginning. Instead of idiotic sibling rivalry, here are ideas for storylines that I can think of just from the top of my head:

- All three of them adjusting to living in Winterfell without their parents and everyone else they knew. Wouldn't you feel weird if you came back to the place you grew up in, only to realise everyone you knew was replaced? All of the known Winterfell residents are dead. Jory, Rodrik, Luwin, all of the people the Stark kids grew up with.
- Bran coping with becoming the TER, I don't know about you guys, but if my brain suddenly had access to everything that had ever happened, I would break down.
- Sansa and Arya bonding, and realising how much they had both changed.
- And if they still want to go with the 'LF trying to get rid of Arya' route, they could at least write it a lot smarter. Why would Arya turn on her sister just because of an old letter? How did Arya not see through this obvious and lazy scheme? Have LF actually dig up information on Arya, watch her in secret and figure out alone where she had been, and then use it against her. If he suddenly revealed to Sansa that Arya had trained at the HOBAW to be a Faceless Assassin, Sansa might have actually started to fear her and consider her an unpredictable threat.

The writing for this subplot is so unbelievably awful, it boggles my mind. At this point the most logical explanation is that D&D hate these three Starks for some reason and just bullshitted their plots as result.

So many people are concerned that 7 or 6 episodes is too little, but in reality they could've added so much more. For the life of me I don't understand D&D's insistence on using screentime they don't have anyway for pointless scenes that don't add anything to the plot.
The Arya/Sansa plot is fine and just a continuation of their hostilities towards each other since season 1. They are both staying within character. It seems to bug a lot of fans that when united the Starks aren't some fairytale perfect family, but rather just like any other bickering family. This is the family that bullied Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy don't forget that. Mainly Catelyn Stark and Sansa did this, and Sansa takes after her mother the most. Sansa even messed with Old Nan, Bran, and of course Arya.
They've all grown up, you can see this when Sansa asked Jon to forgive her. After everything they have all been through, all of them realised they love each other and need to stick together. Back in Braavos, when Arya watched the play, when she thought Tyrion was abusing Sansa she was sad and angry. In the books she constantly says things like "I would even dress up like a lady if it meant seeing Sansa again".
So you're telling me that after 4-5 years of being apart after a massive tragedy, and not knowig whether or not the other is alive, the first thing Arya does when coming back home is fighting with Sansa? I understand what D&D tried to do, they tried to make Arya be suspicious of Sansa because she thinks she will betray Jon, which is understandable, but the execution is terrible. Instead of actually giving Arya valid points to make, and showing Sansa doing things that might actually come off as suspicious, they made Arya unneccessarily mean and cryptic. That seems to be their theme nowadays, making one character look bad in order to make people like the other character. What happened to having two interesting sides, and letting the viewer decide which one they're on?
They did this to Sansa, too. When she wanted to kick two kids out of their ancestral home for something their parents did, which is something Sansa would never do, she's smarter that that. It was all for the sake of some cheap ~conflict~, same goes with what's happening now.
All the characters have unlikable qualities. Sounds like you just have a bias for Sansa and are upset she's being portrayed with some negativity--even though she always was. Arya, also, was always an ass who never listens and always does what she wants.

Lorig1964
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:51 am

Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:27 pm

:)
Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:01 am
How does everyone feel about the pacing? Should there have been 10 episodes? I know they say the story only called for 7, but I think it was budget reasons. Spent so much on 704 and 706 they couldn't do 10. Same thing next season. Only 6 episodes because they'll be even more expensive then these.
I agree. I think you are right and I don't really care for the pacing. There just seems to be so much filler when we don't have that much time left and I'm disappointed in the writers that they did that. Just my humble opinion.

User avatar
Needle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:36 pm

LebronBMT wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:34 pm
All the characters have unlikable qualities. Sounds like you just have a bias for Sansa and are upset she's being portrayed with some negativity--even though she always was. Arya, also, was always an ass who never listens and always does what she wants.
I don't have a bias for Sansa, I just don't like characters being out-of-character with no good reason. "Arya was always an ass" when, exactly? When she was thrust into a life she didn't choose? If you were in her position when she was a kid, and you were told the only purpose in your life is to marry someone and give them children, and that you can't do the things you like doing because of your social status, would you really obey and do it all? Would you really live a depressing life just for the sake of pleasing the people around you?

Every other decision she made since Ned's death was a matter of survival, not being a bratty kid who thinks she can get whatever she wants. And as for Sansa, she was a stuck up girl when she was 13. She grew up, she went through serious shit, and while I can certainly see some of her old traits remain, you can't act as if she hasn't matured. She understands now what ruling truly means, and that life isn't like in the songs. She understands that childish behaviour is unnecessarily mean and hurtful, which is why she's on good terms with Jon now, and also why she doesn't want to fight Arya.

Jaime was a shitty person who turned good, Sandor was a shitty person who turned good, even Theon to an extent. That's the beautiful thing about this story, people are acting like people, not predetermined characters who don't change. Claiming Sansa is still a brat because of how she acted 5 years ago is like saying you're a bad person for not liking anymore a band you were a fan of 5 years ago.

And once again, I don't have anything against portraying characters I like as rude and unlikeable, I just don't appreciate bad writing. If you build up a character a certain way, you gotta keep going with that direction. You can't just change their personality out of nowhere. Even if you put a character through something terrible that changes them, it takes time. Theon didn't just pop up one episode after being captured and acted like Reek, it happened after several episodes where we see him tortured. The Faceless Men didn't cause Arya to lose her personality, in fact that entire storyline was about Arya reclaiming her personality. While Arya was training, she showed that she cares about Sansa's wellbeing (once again, that play).
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Lorig1964
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:51 am

Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Needle wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:19 am
It's possible to tell a story in 7 episodes, if it wasn't then movies wouldn't exist. But D&D are doing such a horrid job at it, it gives the illusion that the plot is moving too quickly at times.
The Winterfell plot feels entirely like unnecessary filler, which is so fucking unnerving because Sansa, Bran and Arya are all main characters we know from the very beginning. Instead of idiotic sibling rivalry, here are ideas for storylines that I can think of just from the top of my head:

- All three of them adjusting to living in Winterfell without their parents and everyone else they knew. Wouldn't you feel weird if you came back to the place you grew up in, only to realise everyone you knew was replaced? All of the known Winterfell residents are dead. Jory, Rodrik, Luwin, all of the people the Stark kids grew up with.
- Bran coping with becoming the TER, I don't know about you guys, but if my brain suddenly had access to everything that had ever happened, I would break down.
- Sansa and Arya bonding, and realising how much they had both changed.
- And if they still want to go with the 'LF trying to get rid of Arya' route, they could at least write it a lot smarter. Why would Arya turn on her sister just because of an old letter? How did Arya not see through this obvious and lazy scheme? Have LF actually dig up information on Arya, watch her in secret and figure out alone where she had been, and then use it against her. If he suddenly revealed to Sansa that Arya had trained at the HOBAW to be a Faceless Assassin, Sansa might have actually started to fear her and consider her an unpredictable threat.

The writing for this subplot is so unbelievably awful, it boggles my mind. At this point the most logical explanation is that D&D hate these three Starks for some reason and just bullshitted their plots as result.

So many people are concerned that 7 or 6 episodes is too little, but in reality they could've added so much more. For the life of me I don't understand D&D's insistence on using screentime they don't have anyway for pointless scenes that don't add anything to the plot.
Agree completely.

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