Jon/Aegon in the books

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ChristinaB618
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Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:21 am

I am curious to see if everyone thinks Jon's real name in the books will also be Aegon. I think it is and that the current Aegon running around is actually a Blackfyre

Violator
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Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:56 pm

I'm not sure why the Blackfyre supporters would want to install a Blackfyre (who they believe is the legitimate and rightful heir to the throne) as a Targaryen though? What would be the point? The Blackfyre rebellions were based on the central belief that the Blackfyre line has a superior claim. It would be like the Jacobites secretly trying to install Bonnie Prince Charlie who they have convinced is a Hanoverian.

Varys might not care for that cause of course, but the Golden Company would.

I'm undecided. On the one hand, because the show hasn't included the Young Griff story line, they have some liberty with the name because Rhaegar's son with Ellia is dead, though I'm not overly convinced he'd have named two sons with the same Targaryen name - there's no need even if he was obsessed with the prophecy.

It seems that it would be natural to call Jon, Jaehaerys who was possibly the best Targaryen king and the name change seems to be more natural with them both beginning with J.

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Grandmaester Flash
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Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:27 am

Violator wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:56 pm
I'm not overly convinced he'd have named two sons with the same Targaryen name - there's no need even if he was obsessed with the prophecy.
I've asked this before, but I keep seeing references linking the name Aegon with a prophecy.
Does this prophecy include the name Aegon? If not, where is the relevance?

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Joel Needs a Car
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Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:54 pm

In A Clash of Kings, the gist of part of Dany's vision in The House of The Undying:
a man who looks like Viserys, but taller and with darker eyes, who says to a woman nursing a baby, "Aegon… What better name for a King… He is the Prince that was Promised, and his is the song of ice and fire"; and when the man’s eyes meet Dany’s, he says either to her or the woman with the baby, "There must be one more… The dragon has three heads", and he picks up a silver harp and begins to play
Daenrys 4. Chapter 48
AKA: Ser Not Appearing in this Series

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Grandmaester Flash
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Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:16 am

Is that it? "Aegon… What better name for a King"
That just sounds like he's chosen the name himself. Presumably after Aegon the Conqueror.
They weren't all good kings, were they, the Aegons? Especially this one.

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Joel Needs a Car
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Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:14 pm

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:16 am
Is that it? "Aegon… What better name for a King"
That just sounds like he's chosen the name himself. Presumably after Aegon the Conqueror.
They weren't all good kings, were they, the Aegons? Especially this one.
Well, it doesn't matter what WE believe, it only matters what Rhaegar believed even if he was away with the fairies at the time :)
AKA: Ser Not Appearing in this Series

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Grandmaester Flash
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Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:32 pm

Yes, but it ought to make sense within the story.

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Wimsey
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Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:04 pm

Yes, Jon's birthname will turn out to be Aegon in the books. And it will be because Lyanna named him that, thinking that Jon's older half-brother was dead. And as for Jon's older half-brother....
Violator wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:56 pm
I'm not sure why the Blackfyre supporters would want to install a Blackfyre (who they believe is the legitimate and rightful heir to the throne) as a Targaryen though? What would be the point?
Also, there are not supposed to be any Blackfyre's left: we should have read something about some presumed dead Blackfyres being unaccounted-for.

And, of course, how would a Blackfyre scion look so much like Rhaegar Targaryen that Tyrion could spot the similarities through a disguise? I know that some people think that all Valyrians look like clones, but: 1) when does Tyrion ever think that "gee, all of these Valyrians in Essos look just like Rhaegar!"? (And, yes: there are still a lot of Valyrians in Essos.) and, 2) how would the Blackfyres keep marrying into Valyrian families?
"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise, don't put it there."
A. P. Chehkov

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Chilli
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Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:06 am

The Blackfyres are related to Rhaegar Targaryen and with all the inbreeding there is not much genetic diversity.

By the way I don't think he's a Blackfyre but a Brightflame. Those are descended from Aegon V older brother Aerion Targaryen and have a better claim on the throne. Maegor Targaryen (son of Aerion) was passed over in the succession as it was feared that the boy might have inherited his father's cruelty and madness. I don't think it was mentioned what happened with his children. They might have married into the female Blackfyre line.

I think Jon will also be named Aegon in the books, that way he will become Aegon VII. And GRRM likes the number 7.

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Wimsey
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Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:06 pm

Chilli wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:06 am
The Blackfyres are related to Rhaegar Targaryen and with all the inbreeding there is not much genetic diversity.
What inbreeding? There is no indication that the Blackfyres continued this level of inbreeding. Given their circumstances, the Blackfyre males would have been taking wives/lovers from all over Essos, but probably not from the upper class with Valyrian blood. If it turned out that the Blackfyres were marrying siblings or cousins through the generations, then this point should have been made already. Again, guns fired late need to be hung early!
Chilli wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:06 am
By the way I don't think he's a Blackfyre but a Brightflame. Those are descended from Aegon V older brother Aerion Targaryen and have a better claim on the throne.
Neither the books nor the show have set up this possibility. Chekhovian Guns work both ways: it's not just a question of "firing" those plot details that have been emphasized throughout, but also a question of making sure that the big firings come from emphasized plot points. Moreover, this has to work for the people who watch/read the series once: good storytelling means that the story is clearly understandable in one telling. (This modern concept of "group-thinking" stories or series of stories is a very new thing, and postdates GRRM starting this series!)
"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise, don't put it there."
A. P. Chehkov

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