Howland Reed?

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Raeslewolhn
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:08 pm

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:53 am
Chilli wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:57 pm
I think the other northern lord just don't care. They've lost so many young able men with Rob. All what's left in the north are old men and children, they are glad there is still someone with Stark blood left to lead them. And Sana at that moment hadn't proved herself to be able to lead, maybe that will change now Jon is away.
It would be different if it was peace time and Ned was still alive.
I agree with this.
Bear in mind also that, within living memory, the purpose of the Wall and the Night Watch has been to keep out the Wildlings. That situation has changed now.
Yes! His role as KitN is to fight the WW just like it would be as LC. The Wildings helped avenge the RW so the politics are very different now. He's a better LC by organizing the entire North than staying at CB. (But they declared him that for avenging the RW, not for the WW, which he used to get them to prepare for the WW so it's not an explanation for accepting vows as over or desertion, but it's a pragmatic and noble thing to support)

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evenwind
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:11 pm

Chilli wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:57 pm
I think the other northern lord just don't care.
This is probably what D&D want us to assume. And really, we can tell each other any story that pleases us. The thing is, we shouldn't have to tell each other the story, we should be able to sit back and let D&D tell it.

I think when you're tasked with fantasy World Building, you lay out the parameters of your world and then you've got stick to them. If you do want to stray from your initial parameters for dramatic purposes, you've got to explain (or least at mention) the change. For instance, in ST/TOS they violated the Prime Directive (you can't interfer with the internal development of alien civilizations) innumerable times but they always had somebody explaining why they were doing it. Or, to put it another way, if Frodo suddenly whipped out a submachine gun or the Cyclops opened his other eye, it would certainly destroy the integrity the story - well, at least for me.

I really would be much happier if D&D took a few lines of dialog to tell us officially why Jon's presence is okay.

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Raeslewolhn
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm

evenwind wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:11 pm
Chilli wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:57 pm
I think the other northern lord just don't care.
This is probably what D&D want us to assume. And really, we can tell each other any story that pleases us. The thing is, we shouldn't have to tell each other the story, we should be able to sit back and let D&D tell it.

I think when you're tasked with fantasy World Building, you lay out the parameters of your world and then you've got stick to them. If you do want to stray from your initial parameters for dramatic purposes, you've got to explain (or least at mention) the change. For instance, in ST/TOS they violated the Prime Directive (you can't interfer with the internal development of alien civilizations) innumerable times but they always had somebody explaining why they were doing it. Or, to put it another way, if Frodo suddenly whipped out a submachine gun or the Cyclops opened his other eye, it would certainly destroy the integrity the story - well, at least for me.

I really would be much happier if D&D took a few lines of dialog to tell us officially why Jon's presence is okay.
I completely agree. We deserved dialogue.

But in accordance with your other point, maybe it will come up again in a way that brings drama and it will all make sense at the end of the season or s8. Our stories are just conjecture.

However, there is the concept of like reality unless noted (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nlessNoted.) GoT didn't have to explain the anatomy of the humans, bc they're just like us except from Planetos. This case isn't quite as extreme as Frodo with a machine gun lol.

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evenwind
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:13 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm

But in accordance with your other point, maybe it will come up again in a way that brings drama and it will all make sense at the end of the season or s8. Our stories are just conjecture.

However, there is the concept of like reality unless noted (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nlessNoted.) GoT didn't have to explain the anatomy of the humans, bc they're just like us except from Planetos. This case isn't quite as extreme as Frodo with a machine gun lol.
We can certainly hope it all makes sense eventually.

As far as Like Reality Unless Noted (great site, BTW!). I think that exactly my problem. In the very first show, they Noted that going AWOL from the Wall was punishable by death and now it's meh. Well, maybe those two lines of dialog explaining it all are ready to be spoken somewhere in the remaining 10 episodes...

Probably time to stop beating the horse (He's dead, Jim!).

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
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Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:49 pm

evenwind wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:13 pm
Raeslewolhn wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:38 pm

But in accordance with your other point, maybe it will come up again in a way that brings drama and it will all make sense at the end of the season or s8. Our stories are just conjecture.

However, there is the concept of like reality unless noted (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nlessNoted.) GoT didn't have to explain the anatomy of the humans, bc they're just like us except from Planetos. This case isn't quite as extreme as Frodo with a machine gun lol.
We can certainly hope it all makes sense eventually.

As far as Like Reality Unless Noted (great site, BTW!). I think that exactly my problem. In the very first show, they Noted that going AWOL from the Wall was punishable by death and now it's meh. Well, maybe those two lines of dialog explaining it all are ready to be spoken somewhere in the remaining 10 episodes...

Probably time to stop beating the horse (He's dead, Jim!).
1. Lol. I will continue to hope :). When S8 is over I'll be ready to critique less forgivingly, but I try to give the BotD. There were times shit didnt make sense until later.

2. You're right. It was laid down Ep1. But Cat and some ppl weren't happy Ned was doing it either. Precedent either way, but needs dialogue....yeah horse is def dead :roll:


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Gendrys Compass
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 am

From one of the trailers where we saw Bran in the wheelchair in the Godswood with a person standing next to him...

I'm really starting to think its Howland Reed. It just doesn't look like anyone else and outside of Sansa/Jon/Arya nobody else really has a reason to be there with him.

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:10 pm

Gendrys Compass wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 am
From one of the trailers where we saw Bran in the wheelchair in the Godswood with a person standing next to him...

I'm really starting to think its Howland Reed. It just doesn't look like anyone else and outside of Sansa/Jon/Arya nobody else really has a reason to be there with him.
I think that's Maester Wolkan
https://winteriscoming.net/2017/06/21/s ... -season-7/

Gendrys Compass
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:02 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:10 pm
Gendrys Compass wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 am
From one of the trailers where we saw Bran in the wheelchair in the Godswood with a person standing next to him...

I'm really starting to think its Howland Reed. It just doesn't look like anyone else and outside of Sansa/Jon/Arya nobody else really has a reason to be there with him.
I think that's Maester Wolkan
https://winteriscoming.net/2017/06/21/s ... -season-7/
I forget where I saw a different breakdown that said the hairstyles didn't match. Who knows... guess we'll find out soon enough! :D

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Dgskdive
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Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:59 pm

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:53 am
Chilli wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:57 pm

Bear in mind also that, within living memory, the purpose of the Wall and the Night Watch has been to keep out the Wildlings. That situation has changed now.
The purpose of the wall was never to keep the Wildlings out. The wall was built to protect the realms of men from the White Walkers. In the past the Wildlings and the NW used to conduct trade with each other. The NW only started picking on the Wildlings after the threat of the White Walkers died off. It is never stated that their mission was to keep out Wildlings. That is what Jon figured out and one of the reasons he was so much in favor of getting them south of the wall.

Lyannabanna
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:18 am

Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:30 am

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:31 pm

Maybe [Howland Reed] has an item, like the sword Dawn

I've been thinking about Dawn ever since the ToJ scene and wondering what happened to it. It makes sense that HR picked it up—Ned was carrying baby Jon! This would explain why it hasn't turned up at WF (unless it's in Lyanna's tomb?).

Regardless whether HR returned it to the Daynes, he probably knows where it is and hopefully its importance. A possible glitch is that no one we know has earned the title Sword of the Morning, so who would wield it? Must that person be a Dayne?

We know nothing about Meera's mother (still alive?). Could her father possibly be Arthur Dayne (a stretch for sure)? What we do know is that she looks *nothing* like HR and Jojen.

Meanwhile, I'm 100% convinced that the sword Meera grabbed at the 3ER's cave is Dark Sister. She had no sword when she arrived there (she killed the WW with her dragonglass spear). We get a good look at it at Benjen's campsite, and she still has it at Castle Black:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zc7K ... hKa0U/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zc7K ... 9vMFE/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zc7K ... hDUXM/view
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ga ... 0712192035

I think we haven't seen the last of the Reeds. Their home, Greywater Watch in The Neck, is a village of constantly shifting rafts floating on a (brackish?) quicksand swamp infested with gigantic deadly carnivores. Ravens can't find it, so they are out of the mainstream loop. It can't support horses, so they have no army. Is this terrain WW-proof?

It is rumored that the Reeds' ancient ancestors inter-married with Children of the Forest, which accounts for their typical short stature (Meera is about the same height as Osha) and Jojen's greensight. Apparently HR never doubted his visions; he cried when Jojen told him that Ned was dead and sent his only children to help and protect Bran. HR *gets it.* Transcript of HBO's bluray on this subject (I haven't read the books and don't intend to do so):

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Hou ... _%26_Lore)

I figure that once Meera updates him on the latest news, they will return to Winterfell ASAP.

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