Cersie's demise

tanner1
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Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:35 pm

So, what if Cersei dies in childbirth, fulfilling the prophecy of the younger sibling? The baby would be the younger sibling of her others and or Jaime by impregnating her would be responsible.

Thoughts?

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evenwind
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Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:51 pm

I thought of that, too. But part of the prophecy is "the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you". I can't come up with a way that a deadly pregnancy can match up - unless it's supposed to be very poetic.

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Ginevra
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Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:01 pm

I've never liked the prophecy applying to anyone but Cersei's little brothers, Jaime and Tyrion or perhaps an unknown bastard brother. If the prophecy could mean anyone's brother or brothers of any form, that would be half of Westeros and a very poor prophecy indeed.

Dornish Gourmand
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Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:48 am

Speaking of Cersei's pregnancy, did anyone catch line by Tycho about the Iron Bank "missing her interest payments"?
This could simply be in reference to money but I was under the impression that it was implying some kind of sexual service in place of payment. In the books, we know that Cersei is definitely not above that sort of behavior (i.e. the Kettleblacks, etc. )
Of course, it would be fairly weak writing if a subtle reference of that sort turned out to be the real cause of her pregnancy.. .
At any rate, I don't think she'll die giving birth but I do think her pregnancy -in some respect- will play a part in her and Jamie's eventual separation.

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Grandmaester Flash
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Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:03 am

Why do people keep on about the Valonqar prophecy? It was never mentioned in the show, unless I missed something.

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QueenofThrones
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Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:03 am

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:03 am
Why do people keep on about the Valonqar prophecy? It was never mentioned in the show, unless I missed something.
I agree, it makes more sense in the show if the person who is truly Cersei's downfall is "another, younger and more beautiful to cast you down and take all you hold dear".

The inclusion of this phrase still (despite all that's happened this season!) gives me hope that Jaime will betray Cersei and join Dany's side prior to Cersei's downfall, not die with her or kill her & then leave as many have suggested. Jaime after all is probably the only thing Cersei holds dear, other than power. And it would be truly delightful to see her rage if Jaime were to fully betray her. While she's pregnant, however, I am quite doubtful he will leave... :(

However the Devil's Advocate position is that they left the Valonqar part out because it would be "too obvious" that either Jaime or Tyrion would kill Cersei. Also, for big events (and Cersei's death would 100% qualify IMO) the show runners have typically followed George and IMO there is little doubt that in the books Cersei will die with "the valonqar's hands wrapped around her neck".

Tensor the Mage
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Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:55 am

To fulfill Maggie's prophecy, Cersei cannot give birth to another child. Therefore, if the prophecy is valid, Cersei must either miscarry or die trying to give birth (or both). If D&D have kept the idea (without having Maggie say it in the show) that her "Valonquar" will kill her, and "Valonquar" means "brother" (which it may or may not), then her dying from Jaime having impregnated her makes perfect sense.

Since, this late in the Game, it's hard to see anyone but Daenarys casting Cersei down and taking everything she holds dear, perhaps Tyrion (as Hand of the rival Queen) will entice Jaime to join Team Dany. As another poster noted, Cersei holds Jaime dear (literally, as a lover) and if Dany takes him (by proxy/Tyrion) then Dany has fulfilled Maggy's prophecy entirely.

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Bran the Muffin
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Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:20 am

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:03 am
Why do people keep on about the Valonqar prophecy? It was never mentioned in the show, unless I missed something.
Which does leave the door open for Cersei to die in childbirth.

I've thought about this as well. In my opinion, her most poetic demise would be to die in childbirth just after delivering a stillborn dwarf offspring.

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Raeslewolhn
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Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:37 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:01 pm
I've never liked the prophecy applying to anyone but Cersei's little brothers, Jaime and Tyrion or perhaps an unknown bastard brother. If the prophecy could mean anyone's brother or brothers of any form, that would be half of Westeros and a very poor prophecy indeed.
I have the same inclination. To be fair though, prophecies don't have to be super specific, neither as a plot device nor in-Universe as a real magic. It would have to be someone who is heavily defined by their younger brother status though. THE valonquar, not A valonquar.

That's why I tend to think Jaime and/or Tyrion but I'm not dead set on it

Also, isn't a HV noun no gender? Or is that one def a boy? There's speculation, solid indication it is male, but not conclusive evidence.

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QueenofThrones wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:03 am
However the Devil's Advocate position is that they left the Valonqar part out because it would be "too obvious" that either Jaime or Tyrion would kill Cersei. Also, for big events (and Cersei's death would 100% qualify IMO) the show runners have typically followed George and IMO there is little doubt that in the books Cersei will die with "the valonqar's hands wrapped around her neck".
Also, Definitely this ^^^

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Tensor the Mage wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:55 am
Since, this late in the Game, it's hard to see anyone but Daenarys casting Cersei down and taking everything she holds dear, perhaps Tyrion (as Hand of the rival Queen) will entice Jaime to join Team Dany. As another poster noted, Cersei holds Jaime dear (literally, as a lover) and if Dany takes him (by proxy/Tyrion) then Dany has fulfilled Maggy's prophecy entirely.
Tensor, after last night, what do you expect S8?

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Does you guys subscribe to the Lion of the Night aspect? Will Cersei become a WW or something?
evenwind wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:51 pm
I thought of that, too. But part of the prophecy is "the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you". I can't come up with a way that a deadly pregnancy can match up - unless it's supposed to be very poetic.
AnOther key part, for me, is the 'pale white throat'.... Although it also says choke the life FROM you. We know wights are dead, do WW count as alive?

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evenwind
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Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:10 pm

Even without the show!Valonqar, Cersei believes the prophecy - why would she be pleased about being pregnant with a fourth kid?

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