'Catspaw Dagger' Importance?

Mike93FirstOfHisName
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:41 am

Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:24 pm

Ok, so, in the run-up to Season 7 there was a lot of hype about the ‘Catspaw Dagger’, we seemed to be seeing hints about it everywhere telling us “this thing is important!”

After watching Alt Shift X’s video “Game of Thrones S7E04 Explained” on YouTube, where he briefly went through the history of the so-called ‘Catspaw Dagger’ on the show/in the books, I questioned why Robert Baratheon would have the dagger to begin with, which led to this theory and after watching S7E05 "Eastwatch" I’m even more convinced.

Thanks to S7E05 we know 2 things:

1. Drogon is quite happy to let Jon touch him, even though as far as everyone in Westeros is concerned (except Bran and perhaps Howland Reed) he’s not a Targaryen and dragons and Targaryens are known to have a deep and mystical connection

2. Jon's real father, Prince Rhaegar Targaryen had his marriage to Elia Martell annulled and secretly married "someone" else in Dorne. Literally, the ONLY person that this could be referring to (considering we all saw her at the Tower of Joy, in Dorne) is Lyanna Stark. Which means... Jon Snow/Stark/Targaryen is the true heir to the Iron Throne, NOT Daenerys.

All of which links to my theory about the mystery surrounding the 'Catspaw Dagger'.

At the beginning of the show the dagger belongs to Robert Baratheon. His "son" Joffrey steals it to arm the assassin he sends to kill Bran, in a twisted attempt to impress Robert. After the failed assassination, Catelyn takes the dagger to King's Landing and leaves it with Ned. After he is betrayed we don't know what happens to the blade... until Season 7, when we find out that all this time, Littlefinger has had it, most likely nabbing it after betraying Ned. He gives it to Bran, as possibly the worst gift ever and Bran then gives it to Arya. Now, as we saw from the book Sam was reading in S7E1 "Dragonstone", the dagger has been around for many years. This is supported by the fact that it has a dragonbone hilt and dragons hadn't been around for centuries until Daenerys came along.

Now, what reason could Robert Baratheon have for owning a dagger made out of two things that are distinctly Targaryen: Valyrian steel and dragonbone? He supposedly hates everything Targaryen. My guess is, that he claimed the blade as a trophy from his greatest victory: the day he defeated Rhaegar Targaryen at the Battle of the Trident.

And why would Rhaegar have such a dagger? On face value, it makes sense; he's a Targaryen, so he owns a Targaryen blade. It could have been a gift, he could have had it made for himself but I think, it belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen because it was an heirloom. One that had been passed down through the generations of the Targaryen dynasty, always passing from the King... to the rightful heir to the throne (I wouldn’t be surprised if we see another flashback scene, showing Rhaegar with the dagger).

Who is now the rightful heir to the throne? Jon.

Who currently has the blade? Arya.

And they both live at Winterfell, where it just so happens that Bran/The Three Eyed Raven is waiting to tell Jon the truth about his parentage.

We can speculate about the circumstances surrounding how/when the dagger will be passed to Jon but I have a very strong suspicion that part of the significance and mystery of the 'Catspaw Dagger’ is that it relates to one of the biggest mysteries of the whole story, and could be a key component of Jons true heritage is revealed to the rest of Westeros.

Lluid
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:34 am

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:37 pm

You did a good job summarizing all we know about the dagger ! (all I know at least)

If we want to jump into speculation, I'd say that the dagger is not meant for Jon :
- From a character point of view, the dagger corresponds better to Arya than Jon. She's the assassin.
- As the 3 eyed raven, Bran probably gave the dagger to Arya intentionally. Else he would have kept and given it to Jon later.

However, you could claim that Arya is only the "chosen" holder of the dagger until she completes something important with it, passing it to Jon afterwards :
- That would lead to the impression that the dagger would have some kind of "will" or ability to influence people's will so that it gets into the hands of someone special. Possible but I don't like it.
- The dagger would be meant for Jon only if something magical happens when he uses it. For instance, he could turn any enemy he kills with it into a "fire wight" fighting for him. Only because he's a Targaryen. But we would already have heard of such incredible things in old books and tales through Westeros right ?

To sum it up, my impression is that this dagger is only a very fine and expensive Valyrian steel dagger. Since it's unique, of course it's always in the hands of important people because it's kind of a prize. And therefore parts of history are attached to it. But nothing more. Rhaegar had it, but it's not necessarily linked to Targaryens in a deeper level.
But if I'm wrong, I'm quite interested in all the ideas you could find about the effect the dagger could gain if Jon was using it (or any special reason for him to have this dagger instead of any other Valeryan steel weapon).

onefromaway
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:11 pm

Thanks for the background on the dagger, it is interesting. I hope that it does have some special purpose beyond being a unique weapon. As you have pointed out, a lot of attention has been given to that dagger so at least let it be used in an important moment. Maybe Sam will get back to WF and meet Arya and see it and remember seeing that image of it when he was flipping through the books. Hopefully, that book is one of the ones he made off when he left Old Town. Then he can go research it and enlighten us all. Any magical qualities...maybe since the hilt is made of dragon bone (this was the first I heard of that!) if the holder of it is Targaryen it will do or mean something special (I think poster above went into more detail about that option). Anyhow, it is yet another mystery for us to look forward to seeing resolved (at least I hope so!).

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Jack Bauer 24
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:15 am

I thought it was LF's? He said he lost it to Tyrion in a bet in S1.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:25 am

Something I think we should be considering is who in truth gave the dagger to the cat's paw to kill Bran. Are we convinced this was Joffrey?

I am not. Valyerian steel is really valuable even Joffrey wouldn't give it away, right?

I have a theory and I fear I could be correct, so I will let it slowly kill me until season 8.

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Grandmaester Flash
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Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:54 pm
Location: England

Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:40 am

Jack Bauer 24 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:15 am
I thought it was LF's? He said he lost it to Tyrion in a bet in S1.
Ah! If Littlefinger said that, it must be true. :lol:

onefromaway
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:21 pm

LebronBMT wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:25 am
Something I think we should be considering is who in truth gave the dagger to the cat's paw to kill Bran. Are we convinced this was Joffrey?

I am not. Valyerian steel is really valuable even Joffrey wouldn't give it away, right?

I have a theory and I fear I could be correct, so I will let it slowly kill me until season 8.
I've wondered about this too. Primarily because the reason given for Joffrey's desire to kill Bran was to gain favor in his "father's" eyes (to put Bran out of his misery) just doesn't sound right to me. I don't see Joffrey seeking his "father's" approval. In the show, Robert and Joffery don't have much of a relationship and I see him getting whatever he wants through manipulating his mother, Cersei. Since Cersei holds Robert in contempt, I imagine Joffrey does too.

But on the side, doesn't this theory come out of the books and not the show?

I also agree that Joffrey wouldn't part with such a fine dagger given his love of weapons that we see later in the show. Any old weapon would have done the deed if all Joffrey wanted was to kill Bran.

The use of that specific weapon is important but we are going to have to wait and see just how and who is behind it. Looking forward to S8 to see if your theory is right and you'll tell us about it!

Meg22
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:24 am

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:35 pm

Bran would be only useful dead for what he knows. Joffrey doesn't have a motive in this. How would Joffrey know what Bran saw? Why would killing Bran impress his father? Robert Baratheon didn't know Cercei and Jaime were lovers and his children by Cercei weren't his.

Cercei and Jaime do have a motive, but I doubt they'd send a valyerian steel dagger with the assassin. The person responsible wanted this weapon to be traceable. Who stood to benefit? I can only think of Littlefinger.

LebronBMT
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:42 pm

Meg22 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:35 pm
Bran would be only useful dead for what he knows. Joffrey doesn't have a motive in this. How would Joffrey know what Bran saw? Why would killing Bran impress his father? Robert Baratheon didn't know Cercei and Jaime were lovers and his children by Cercei weren't his.

Cercei and Jaime do have a motive, but I doubt they'd send a valyerian steel dagger with the assassin. The person responsible wanted this weapon to be traceable. Who stood to benefit? I can only think of Littlefinger.
I think Littlefinger is a suspect too. But I think there is another, even more suspicious candidate. Too spoilery to even suggest it.

Meg22
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:24 am

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:24 pm

LebronBMT wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:42 pm
Meg22 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:35 pm
Bran would be only useful dead for what he knows. Joffrey doesn't have a motive in this. How would Joffrey know what Bran saw? Why would killing Bran impress his father? Robert Baratheon didn't know Cercei and Jaime were lovers and his children by Cercei weren't his.

Cercei and Jaime do have a motive, but I doubt they'd send a valyerian steel dagger with the assassin. The person responsible wanted this weapon to be traceable. Who stood to benefit? I can only think of Littlefinger.
I think Littlefinger is a suspect too. But I think there is another, even more suspicious candidate. Too spoilery to even suggest it.
Bran has given one clue - it's someone very wealthy. It's someone who wants to cause trouble between the Lannisters and the Starks possibly to start a rebellion. It would also have to be someone who knows about Bran's accident - maybe someone with a spy network who deplores the current ruler and his progeny. Someone, perhaps, who had declared Littlefinger to be the most dangerous man in the realm, and would have no compunction in setting him up.

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