Actors in the dark, how DnD herd them with fake scenes?

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:10 pm

A few times now, I've noticed in production Extras and deleted scenes that the plot, and more importantly character arcs, seem to differ significantly between what was filmed and what was aired. I've been thinking that this may be an effective initiative DnD have taken to guide the actors to perform as desired.

Just a few examples:

1. Kit Harrington filmed a scene in S3 where he was about to leave Ygritte early in the morning, when they were camping South of the Wall. He could've gone back to the NW but he stayed with her until he couldn't. Harrington has said it was difficult for him to understand why Jon was leaving this woman he loved. So maybe that scene helped him process it for his character. I'm not sure if they always planned to cut it...


2. Sansa and Bran filmed a scene where she's deciding to kill Arya, and Bran enlightens her, so she decides to kill LF. They didn't air it, obv. I find it hard to believe they filmed it and only very late decided to cut it. I think it was fake filming.

I'm inclined to think they did this so that Sophie Turner and others would be able to play the a part of naive enough, for us to believe what we saw in E1-6. This deleted scene reveals she wasn't acting that Sansa was faking LF out, which is how the final product looks, but for Turner it was Sansa actually falling for LF's plan.

Had it been included, this scene would have given away the LF plot twist death scene, and basically makes moot the entire season build up.

Now,I have no evidence that their intention was to influence the actors and get the best out of them. But there is substantial indication it wasn't ever intended to be in the final product....

The final product gives us a murder conspiracy plot Arc that flips the usual form. In most such plots, the protagonist is in the dark, we see the adversaries acting as if everything is good for the protagonist and then it suddenly flips and the protagonist finally sees their twisted scheme, at the moment of defeat it becomes clear. Now, inE7, LF is in the place of the protagonist, but the Starks are the fan favorites, the heroes, and the rat-like Villain is the one being tricked.

This was clearly intended from the beginning bc (a) the entire Arya storyline where she is overly obvious gng into LFs room despite being able to be completely silent, she's clearly putting on a show for him the entire time, as we know Maisie Williams is capable of portraying the double layer
(b) despite her still present resentments toward Sansa from childhood, Arya's explicit communication with Sansa that, though they may have sisterly divergence, Arya will have her BK anyway, is clear when she gives Sansa the dagger silently after leaving the door open for others (LF) to hear the conversation
(c) we leave the Stark kids altogether in their first conversation at the tree, in the middle of the conversation, indicating there's off-screen stuff we don't know about in this plot, between the three of them.... the same way this happened with tyrion and cersei e7. Were meant to be suspicious. I concede, could be a later edit, but there's no info that anything was cut.
(d) the time and precision it would take to plan with and convince rhoyce and everyone else in that room without LF's knowledge (not the hardest, but considering the other indications).
And (e) the fact that they didn't get the last scripts until right before filming means they filmed other episodes before having that knowledge of the pretending aspect (they knew LF died but maybe not that they were gonna fake him out that whole time) and so it's PoSSIBLE Turner and some others didn't know and could better act as if LF was succeeding.

Thoughts?

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evenwind
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:07 pm

Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:08 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:10 pm
Now,I have no evidence that their intention was to influence the actors and get the best out of them. But there is substantial indication it wasn't ever intended to be in the final product....
It just seems like a very expensive way to get the correct response from (relatively inexperienced?) actors. I would doubt that somebody like Ian McShane needed to be tricked into getting it right.

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:33 am

evenwind wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:08 pm
Raeslewolhn wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:10 pm
Now,I have no evidence that their intention was to influence the actors and get the best out of them. But there is substantial indication it wasn't ever intended to be in the final product....
It just seems like a very expensive way to get the correct response from (relatively inexperienced?) actors. I would doubt that somebody like Ian McShane needed to be tricked into getting it right.
Def too expensive. I was thinking Sophie Turner. But I suppose you're right.

A few new videos assessing the deleting have come out and I can see how it's viewed as a mess and beyond the capacity of DnD. Maybe their writing was so bad that the later salvage seemed better...or maybe the salvage made more sense at least... it just made no sense for Sansa's character, that original scene before deleting. It made no sense plot-wise for Bran not to have said anything yet. It just made Zero sense with that scene included.

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QueenofThrones
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Location: New York

Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:50 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:33 am
Def too expensive. I was thinking Sophie Turner. But I suppose you're right.

A few new videos assessing the deleting have come out and I can see how it's viewed as a mess and beyond the capacity of DnD. Maybe their writing was so bad that the later salvage seemed better...or maybe the salvage made more sense at least... it just made no sense for Sansa's character, that original scene before deleting. It made no sense plot-wise for Bran not to have said anything yet. It just made Zero sense with that scene included.
After watching the resolution of the Winterfell plot I personally felt satisfied by the overall arc and can see what they were trying to do. I can see how others may have not felt the same as well but for me it worked. Yes, Arya and Sansa were really fighting for at least some of that. Yes, Littlefinger was manipulating Sansa successfully for at least some of the season. Yes, Sansa figured out what Littlefinger was doing (at some point in time) and then got more information, and manipulated him in return resulting in his death.

It seems like what people are frustrated by is the fact that we cannot be sure given what we were actually shown, exactly what happened when, or exactly what each character is thinking when. We have to guess. Did Sansa Send Brienne away as a double fake to make LF think she is being played? Or did she actually get played? The answer depends on what you think about the character of Sansa - it is never revealed explicitly. If you don't like being in the dark, then you'll be annoyed.

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