Theories, Wild Theories, & General Lunacy

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Ginevra
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:50 pm

What are some of your favorite theories, especially those you've discovered on your own? Why do you love them so? What makes you think each has a chance of coming true?

I'd love for this to be a spot for the free-spirits to be bound by rational thought but free from rational judgment. Or judgment of all sorts, really.

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Flayed Potatoes
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:18 pm

I'll start. In no particular order, here are some theories I subscribe to/like.

1. R+L=J - I like how it's written in the books, the hints make sense as do the character motivations (fathering a bastard would be out of character for Ned). Not to mention, should Jon find out about his parentage we'll likely have some amazing POV chapters, introspection and character development (and angst lol). Jon has always wanted to find out who his mother is, so I really want him to finally be told the truth and find his place in the world. And yes I also believe they married and have believed this for years.

2. Bloodraven has Dark Sister in the cave - I like this mostly because I want to see more VS swords in the war and I would hate for such old and valuable heirlooms to be lost forever. I'd also like for either Meera or Arya to be given the sword at least temporarily (I know there are some theories that the latter might wield it in the great war). This obviously didn't happen on the show, but I still have hopes for the book. I at least want the sword to be found and returned.

3. Grand Northern Conspiracy - I don't think all the Northern lords are working together, but I think there are numerous factions working independently to defeat the Boltons (with each backing their own Stark candidate for kingship in the North and/or lordship of Winterfell). Some are backing Rickon, others want Arya saved, others want Jon... there's so much potential for conflict here and Northern politics are a lot more interesting to me than KL ones (sorry Cersei). Not to mention, we still have to see Robb's will in the books resurface. Not much conspiracy going on in the show sadly, but Jon ended up KITN, which is something I believed would happen based on the theory.

4. Sandor is the gravedigger - CONFIRMED (after a fashion). He's definitely alive.

5. Young Griff is a Blackfyre / Dany vs Young Griff (Dance of Dragons 2) - There's a lot of conflict here which will lead to some character development for Daenerys (Young Griff is the perfect foil). Obviously this didn't happen in the show, but their confrontation is foreshadowed in the books. And obviously Young Griff is a fake... I mean come on.

6. Southron Ambitions - Those sudden marriage arrangements between lords and ladies of different kingdoms cannot be a coincidence and neither is Ned and Robert's fostering.

7. Valoquar/Cersei outliving her kids - I mean duh. The irony is strong here because the more Cersei tries to avoid the prophecy, the closer it is to happening.

I'm sure there are more, but I can't think right now lol. Looking forward to your theories as well, Ginevra!

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QueenofThrones
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:52 pm

For my part, I still ascribe to A+J = T aka T=Targ aka "three heads has the dragon". I was convinced after reading adwd and hearing about the shenanigans with Aerys molesting Johanna Lannister. TO be fair the show hasn't done as much with it as the books yet... but the same could have been said about R+L until the big reveal. :)

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Ginevra
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:15 pm

These are all great, Flayed Potatoes!

For #2, I just this week rewatched all of the behind-the-scenes videos for Season 6 from here, http://gameofthrones.com/game-of-throne ... /episode-1, and the five docuseries videos (for Episodes 1 and 2; 3 and 4; 5 and 6; 7 and 8; and 9 and 10) that I found on YouTube. In one of those many videos, either D or D (can't recall which) said that there were like 10 Valyrian steel swords in all of Westeros or Planetos. I nearly died! Although there are 14 here, http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Va ... eel_blades. I hope they come into play this season, in preparation for the war to come! Alas, that may be next season.

I'll mention one for now. This is one I've come up with by reading but I'm certain I'm not alone, and yet it is a fairly obscure sort of theory. I've talked about it and given a good deal of evidence before, a couple of years ago, and so I'll just copy that here.

I have a theory that something is rotten in the state of the Winterfell crypts, and it isn’t the dead dudes. Well, it is, but the rottenness isn’t coming from the fact that they are dead but rather the opposite. Are they only mostly dead? Can they come back from that? What is the significance of their direwolves, with whom they were buried and not their wives? Are they buried with swords to keep them in their crypts or so they’ll be ready to fight when called? Are the dead kings tied to the fact that there must always be a (living) Stark at Winterfell? Is that because only a Stark in name and blood can raise and command the stone kings the same way that the Others raise and command the wights?

Here are quotes that point to the animation of the Kings (and Lords) of the North, mostly from GoT (Kindle Edition):
The Lords of Winterfell watched them pass. … In long rows they sat, blind eyes staring out into eternal darkness, while great stone dire wolves curled round their feet. The shifting shadows made the stone figures seem to stir as the living passed by. By ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts. –p. 39.
Blind stone eyes seemed to follow them as they passed. –p. 42
He could feel the eyes of the dead. They were all listening, he knew. –p. 45
Robb and Jon lure Arya, Bran, and Sansa into the crypts to scare the piss out of them, and Robb says:
“There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” –p. 522
But is this reference to the walking dead a prophetic one given what happens north of the Wall?

Bran and Rickon share a portentous dream of their father in the Winterfell crypts just before news of Ned’s death reaches Winterfell.
“[The crow and I] went down to the crypts. Father was there, and we talked. He was sad.” –Bran, after Ned’s death, p. 706
“Rickon,” Bran said softly. “Father’s not here.”

“Yes he is. I saw him.” Tears glistened on Rickon’s face. “I saw him last night.”

“In your dream …?”

Rickon nodded. “You leave him. You leave him be. He’s coming home now, like he promised. He’s coming home.” –p. 710
Ned describes a crypts dream, as well.
The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. –from Ned’s dream, p. 484
Half a dozen or so times, George mentions a recurring dream of Jon’s: He’s running through Winterfell, desperately searching for someone but finding no one, not even the ravens. Heading to the crypts, then, he becomes deathly afraid.
In the dark he’d heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitch-dark, his heart hammering. –p. 534
He dreamt he was back in Winterfell, limping past the stone kings on their thrones. Their grey granite eyes turned to follow him as he passed, and their grey granite fingers tightened on the hilts of the rusted swords upon their laps. –ASoS, p. 868
All my dreams are of the crypts, of the stone kings on their thrones. Sometimes I hear Robb’s voice, and my father’s, as if they were at a feast. –Jon, ASoS, p. 1047
The Barrowlands where the First Men are buried (and barrows everywhere in the north) seem portentous, as well, but they might be fodder for the Others.

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Ginevra
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:21 pm

D&D were either pushing or trolling that theory hard, QueenofThrones, with Tyrion's tête-à-tête with the dragons this season!

MaesterMercy
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Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:38 pm

Hodor!
A surprise or two from the Winterfell crypts would be epic! I've been curious about them since reading the 1st three books 6yrs ago.
There seems to be much less discussion on this theory than many others, which only heightens my curiosity & allows my imagination to roam further.
Whether hero or villain in the end, I just want the old kings to surprise the H out of everyone

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QueenofThrones
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Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:29 am

Speaking of Valeryian Steel I'm somewhat fond of the theory that the idea of a Last Hero + 12(??) companions revival could happen, with each wielding a VS weapon against the others.

Long Claw - is currently Jons but if Jon gets a dragon maybe he doesn't need the sword and could let Jorah use it?

Oathkeeper - Stays with Brienne unless she dies...

Lions Tooth / widow wail - Arya needs a sword - needle is great but I'd love to see her with "Joffreys" sword. It's a good size for her.

Hearts bane - The Hound I suppose is one of the few strong enough to wield it.

Targaryen blades: I think there are supposed to be 3 of them? Dark sister... was visenyas IIRC? What others are there?

Other potential fighters - the show keeps killing people - For named, important characters that could potentially fight, there aren't that many left lol... Jaime (but he sucks at fighting now), Beric (flaming vs sword anyone?!?), Tormund (need to get my man a VS axe up in here), Davos (we've never actually seen him fight with a blade??), grey worm (is there a VS spear?), Theon (maybe), Tyrion (not much of a fighter plus he maybe gets a dragon?), Yara (prob a better candidate than Theon...)...

Any who are more up on VS lore care to contribute candidates / weapon match ups?

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Flayed Potatoes
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Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:20 am

Ginevra wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:15 pm
These are all great, Flayed Potatoes!

I'll mention one for now. This is one I've come up with by reading but I'm certain I'm not alone, and yet it is a fairly obscure sort of theory. I've talked about it and given a good deal of evidence before, a couple of years ago, and so I'll just copy that here.

I have a theory that something is rotten in the state of the Winterfell crypts, and it isn’t the dead dudes. Well, it is, but the rottenness isn’t coming from the fact that they are dead but rather the opposite. Are they only mostly dead? Can they come back from that? What is the significance of their direwolves, with whom they were buried and not their wives? Are they buried with swords to keep them in their crypts or so they’ll be ready to fight when called? Are the dead kings tied to the fact that there must always be a (living) Stark at Winterfell? Is that because only a Stark in name and blood can raise and command the stone kings the same way that the Others raise and command the wights?
YES!!! I think so too. Remember that scene in LOTR when Aragorn summons the army of the dead to fight for him? I've thought we'd something similar with either Jon and/or Bran commanding them. Bran can raise and control them with his powers and they'll follow Jon in battle or something like that. I can imagine a scenario where Winterfell is attacked by wights and Bran pulls off this trick.

I also wonder what's hidden in the deepest levels of the crypts (book). Or if there is something there at all.
QueenofThrones wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:29 am
Speaking of Valeryian Steel I'm somewhat fond of the theory that the idea of a Last Hero + 12(??) companions revival could happen, with each wielding a VS weapon against the others.
I think Bran fulfills the prophecy of the Last Hero. The story is:

Legends of the north state the last hero and his companions went in search of the children of the forest during the Long Night, thousands of years ago. The only survivor of the company after attacks from giants, wights, and Others, the last hero eventually reached the children and gained their assistance.

This fits Bran. He sets out with his companions and finds the last children of the forest. All his companions die (except Meera because Bran needs someone to carry him).

As for sword match-ups, I'm willing to go on a limb and predict that Jorah will end up with Heartsbane. He was promised a VS sword.

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GeraltOfRivia
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Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:44 am

1. RLJ - covered by many people. We have enough of hints, foreshadowing and clues to put it together and show did their work on this aswell. I've always though that this was out of love and not just prophecy. George did confirmed Rhaegar was a love struck Prince+ prophecy and here we have his relationship with Lyanna. Legitimacy was something that I wasn not sure of but it might be a real possibility.

2. Azor Ahai and Prince that was Promised are two different people as Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow.

3. Hound is the Gravedigger and Gregor Ser Robert Strong. These will fight before the end, known as Cleganebowl.

4. Bran is the reincarnation of Bran the Builder.

5. Younger more beautiful Queen is sellfullfing prophecy and not just by one person. Cersei's paranoia thought it was Margaery, Daenerys is too obvious, Brienne is interesting but she cannot take away from her her power.

6. The Targaryens/the Starks and the Other/White Walkers are connected via blood or some other form.

7. Aegon is a Blackfyre.

8. Euron will take control over one of Dany's dragon. Show is hinting on another player taking control over one of her dragons in a different manner. Books and show will be diferent in this.

9. Lyanna Stark is The King of the Laughing Tree.

10: Citadel has sort of clues for the war against the White Walkers.
Just a guy full of sarcasm, flaws and himself.

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Dee Stark
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Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:26 am

We don't get many theories when you are a show only fan... so here are some of my thoughts:

- R+L=J is pretty much confirmed now. But I love this story and it really shocked me when I figured it out myself while watching Season 5 Episode 4. D&D did an excellent job of foreshadowing and giving hints on this theory. I just hope that Jon finds out in Season 7 (not season 8).

- The Prince who was Promised: We have heard Melisandre mention that a few times, and chosen ones and what not. I don't believe there is only one. I believe there are multiple. Even Beric Dondarion. It could me more of those who truly believe in fighting the great war and ending in the long night.

Edit: Another theory I have had is that Gendry is Cersei's blackhaired son. I saw a post on this in the forum and reminded me that I have had this theory, though I don't know how much I believe it.

That's all :) haha

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