Theories, Wild Theories, & General Lunacy

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:04 pm

QueenofThrones wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:50 pm
I seriously doubt Tyrion will be villanous in the show at this point. They haven't set up villanous characterization for him in the show, like at all, so it would be very out in left field. In the (I think incredibly unlikely) event that Dany goes mad/power hungry, Tyrion will break from her first. They've set up a possible break with Dany over the fact that Ellaria killed Myrcella. Still I think it's much more likely that Dany would jettison the Dornish / execute Ellaria rather than breaking with Tyrion.
You are correct, of course. There isn't much book evidence. My biggest evidence I consider a spoiler, so I'll put it under spoiler code. Note that this is not a Season 7 leak spoiler but some very, very old news.
► Show Spoiler
Personally I think "Dany the mad queen" theories are ridiculous but it's nothing personal, do not worry. :p
I agree! D&D have debunked her as mad. She's not mad. Neither was Hitler. And "she's not Hitler at Nurembug, but..."

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this, but I do see paths being laid.

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Dee Stark
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:08 pm

QueenofThrones wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:59 pm
Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm
Jon Snow is the ONLY character on the show who has ONLY done anything for others, and hasn't at all demonstrated any villainous traits. And I do not like to use that word because some people misunderstand its meaning... think Sansa in season 6 is a villain (or in general) LOL.... Arya is more of a "villain" then Sansa is.
I totally agree about both Arya (tied for my favorite character with Tyrion, ironically) and Sansa have done some really bad stuff. But what about Bran, Hodor, Sam, and Ned? None are perfect, of course, but neither is Jon. I would say all of these are pretty good people who have not done anything too bad.
Sam is my hero. <3

Also Barristan. Worst thing he did was not to leave the KG when Aerys was in charge. But we now know that he backed Rhaegar deposing Aerys which was the right thing to do.

Bran warging Hodor is IMO a villainous act in the book. Not sure it was portrayed that way in the show.

Ned did cause his nephew and wife 16 years of psychological pain for no reason... Also, he forged Robert's will rather than telling him the truth, and in effect sentenced two innocent kids to die (notice I'm not including Joffery - he had it coming for Mycah).
Re: Ned

What about kidnapping Theon?

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:11 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:54 pm
But wait, what has Sansa done that has been really bad?!?!
Arya kills people, she killed Frey sons who were "innocent", for example.
Which innocent Freys did Arya kill? There aren't that many innocent Freys, but there are some.

Sansa said nothing as tens of thousands of men, which she convinced Jon to have fight for Winterfell, died while an entire secret army was waiting in the wings. Some say there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I disagree.

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:15 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:08 pm
Re: Ned

What about kidnapping Theon?
Theon wasn't kidnapped, per se, as far as I understand. Theon was given to the Starks to be fostered as part of their family as part of the Ironborn peace deal so that Robert would be assured the Boltons wouldn't rebel again, standard practice after a rebellion.

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QueenofThrones
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:04 pm
You are correct, of course. There isn't much book evidence. My biggest evidence I consider a spoiler, so I'll put it under spoiler code. Note that this is not a Season 7 leak spoiler but some very, very old news.
► Show Spoiler
It looks like that was during an interview just after AGoT when 'Clash was about to come out. Given that context I think it makes more sense. After all, at that time Tyrion was working directly against the interests of the Starks. I mean he literally just fought at the Green Fork and was on his way to be hand for Joffery of all people. At that time his literary role was as an Anti-Villain

After the end of ASOS his role is very different, though he's also a darker character. He just killed the worst villain there is. Basically, Tywin's death transitions Tyrion from Anti-Villain to Anti-Hero. And now he's with one of the heros. Honestly I doubt as to whether GRRM even intended to send Tyrion to Dany at this point in his writing process. That's the kind of stuff he makes up as he goes along IMO.
I agree! D&D have debunked her as mad. She's not mad. Neither was Hitler. And "she's not Hitler at Nurembug, but..."

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this, but I do see paths being laid.
Hitler and most dictators are basically "mad" in the way that Aerys was described for much of his life... and the way that Cersei is becoming more and more. Power Hungry. Sociopathic. Narcissistic. Paranoid.

Also in a way It's all about which word you emphasize in that quote. :p

She's NOT Hitler at Nuremberg, but...
Or she's not Hitler at Nuremberg, BUT...!

First one implies that the power she has is scary, but since we all know she's a good guy, we'll probably be ok.
Second one implies that though she's not as quite evil as Hitler she might end up just as bad.

First one to me is more reasonable but YMMV

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:21 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:56 pm
Also... Geralt... Where can I read more about Azor Ahai, The Prince who Was Promised, and The Last Hero???
There are these seven books, see...

I'm joking.

One of the people who run this site is vile, I hear, but I do love it as a resource anyway. There are plenty of book spoilers here, but at this point, we are so far past the books that I see the books as resources for better understanding rather than spoilers.

AAR: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai

TPTWP: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Th ... s_promised

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Jay Targ
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:23 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:04 pm

You are correct, of course. There isn't much book evidence. My biggest evidence I consider a spoiler, so I'll put it under spoiler code. Note that this is not a Season 7 leak spoiler but some very, very old news.
► Show Spoiler
I agree! D&D have debunked her as mad. She's not mad. Neither was Hitler. And "she's not Hitler at Nurembug, but..."

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this, but I do see paths being laid.
I guess it depends on what you mean by villain. In the show they've set her up to go against Cersei rather than (f)Aegon. It's very doubtful that the general audience will see her as a villain in this scenario. The only way is if she did something against the Stark. Which with winter coming, seems doubtful.

It's also rather convenient that the White Walkers seem poised to finally make their move on the Seven Kingdoms that it almost eliminates any time for Dany to act as a villain.
Image

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:32 pm

QueenofThrones wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:19 pm
Also in a way It's all about which word you emphasize in that quote. :p

She's NOT Hitler at Nuremberg, but...
Or she's not Hitler at Nuremberg, BUT...!

First one implies that the power she has is scary, but since we all know she's a good guy, we'll probably be ok.
Second one implies that though she's not as quite evil as Hitler she might end up just as bad.
Go to the very end of this video, at 11:20.

https://youtu.be/6a7Qbj_tgjM?t=11m21s
At the end of this scene, you should be somewhat roused by her, and a little horrified. She's not Hitler at Nuremberg, but she's got the power.

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Dee Stark
Posts: 75
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:21 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:56 pm
Also... Geralt... Where can I read more about Azor Ahai, The Prince who Was Promised, and The Last Hero???
There are these seven books, see...

I'm joking.

One of the people who run this site is vile, I hear, but I do love it as a resource anyway. There are plenty of book spoilers here, but at this point, we are so far past the books that I see the books as resources for better understanding rather than spoilers.

AAR: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai

TPTWP: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Th ... s_promised

Hahahaha is there any other source?

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Dee Stark
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:04 pm

Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:37 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:15 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:08 pm
Re: Ned

What about kidnapping Theon?
Theon wasn't kidnapped, per se, as far as I understand. Theon was given to the Starks to be fostered as part of their family as part of the Ironborn peace deal so that Robert would be assured the Boltons wouldn't rebel again, standard practice after a rebellion.

Thanks for clarifying.. I am only going with what was said on the show.


And regarding Sansa, I don't think that was villainous.
And regarding the Frey sons... I am saying that she killed Walder Frey's sons right before killing Walder. How did she know which son was involved in the murder of her family? Don't get me wrong... I don't think any Frey is innocent and I hate them
Just making an argument

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