Theories, Wild Theories, & General Lunacy

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Jay Targ wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:23 pm
I guess it depends on what you mean by villain. In the show they've set her up to go against Cersei rather than (f)Aegon. It's very doubtful that the general audience will see her as a villain in this scenario. The only way is if she did something against the Stark. Which with winter coming, seems doubtful.

It's also rather convenient that the White Walkers seem poised to finally make their move on the Seven Kingdoms that it almost eliminates any time for Dany to act as a villain.
Going against Cersei isn't villainous, I agree. I believe the villainy will come after Dany establishes her rule, if the Dothraki continue to pillage, murder, and rape, and if the dragons continue to burn.

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:37 pm
And regarding the Frey sons... I am saying that she killed Walder Frey's sons right before killing Walder. How did she know which son was involved in the murder of her family? Don't get me wrong... I don't think any Frey is innocent and I hate them
Just making an argument
Oh, yeah! Frey pie!!!! How could I forget? I had assumed that these were some of his older sons, who were complicit in the Red Wedding at the very least. I suppose that could have meant babies, but the sons in the books' Frey pie were all older.

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:46 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm
Hahahaha is there any other source?
I don't know of one that doesn't have some book spoilers.

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Flayed Potatoes
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:50 pm

I agree with Ginevra. Some think Dany's conquest of Westeros is going to be smooth sailing, that she will be welcomed and beloved by all the moment she lands, but that won't be the case, especially in the books. We're going to see a subversion of Aegon's Conquest. fAegon is poised to steal much of her initial thunder and allies.

- Aegon had 3 mature dragons and 3 riders who could control them, which meant he could control the damage caused by the dragons and fight multiple battles at the same time with the help of those dragons. He sent his sisters to conquer different parts of Westeros.

- Book Dany has 3 young dragons and no riders besides herself, which she can't control very well. This means she cannot control the damage her dragons will cause and cannot use them in multiple battles at the same time in different areas of Westeros. Her dragons will not be as old and mature as Aegon's when she lands. She'd have to live 100 years more for that to happen.

- Aegon had his loyal sisters and loyal half brother to advise him.

- Dany's advisors have, for the most part, never interacted with Westerosi people and have no idea about the place they are going to. Those who come from Westeros (Tyrion) have their own agenda. Book Tyrion is not as whitewashed on the show and GRRM referred to him as a villain. Book Jorah is a creepy and spiteful older man who wants to sleep with a teenager, not the hilariously friendzoned character you see on the show.

- Aegon had an army of soldiers.

- Dany brings with her an army of pillaging Dothraki and pillaging Ironborn (basically Westeros' worst nightmare). Her Dothraki and Unsullied are not used to the climate of Westeros and many will surely starve and resort to pillaging to feed themselves. I don't expect the show to address this; they'll eliminate obstacles as usual. But if GRRM can write 6 page descriptions about food, you bet he'll write 6 pages about the struggles her army will have, possible diseases and, of course, lack of food.

- Aegon conquered during the summer iirc, and he conquered kingdoms that were fighting with each other, but the effects of the fighting weren't as disastrous as the War of the Five Kings.

- Dany is landing in the winter, trying to conquer a land that has been ravaged by the War of the Five Kings, and will likely be ravaged by her some more when she faces fAegon, Cersei, Euron or whoever will be in her way. To add, winter is coming, snows are falling, white walkers are set to attack Westeros and so on.
"Everywhere the dragons danced, people died."


Imagine you are a Westerosi peasant trying to rebuild your life and store enough food to last you through the winter. You've survived the War of the Five Kings and you're dealing with the aftermath. Just when you think things have settled for you and your family, in comes the Mad King's daughter (someone you don't know and have never met or seen in your life) on top of a dragon flanked by two other dragons, burning stone houses and unleashing an army of raping and pillaging Dothraki and Ironborn so she can sit on a chair. She can't control every single thought or see every gesture her army does 24/7. She's not psychic and omnipresent. Not even the noble Robb Stark could control all his men from raping women. The Unsullied do not raid your village and rape your daughters, but who is to say the Dothraki or Ironborn will listen? Think of the Lazareen village the Dothraki attacked in season 1. She does not approve of the practice, which is good, but she still can't stop it. The women had already been raped before she got there and her solution was for the Dothraki men to marry the women...so the women would be married to their rapists/captors. And it's not like she can change practices that have been going on for hundreds of years over night. And after all of that, should her conquest be successful, imagine being a Westerosi peasant who has to live with the same people who just invaded them. The Dothraki are a nomadic people and have been for centuries. How does she plan on integrating them into Westerosi society in her lifetime? It's not something that just happens over the course of a weekend. The show might skip over these crucial things (as it does), but I fully expect this to be addressed at some point in the books.
Last edited by Flayed Potatoes on Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dee Stark
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:51 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:46 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm
Hahahaha is there any other source?
I don't know of one that doesn't have some book spoilers.

I don't mind book spoilers.. but I don't really support those people for the site you sent. Lol

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Jay Targ
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:52 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Going against Cersei isn't villainous, I agree. I believe the villainy will come after Dany establishes her rule, if the Dothraki continue to pillage, murder, and rape, and if the dragons continue to burn.
Okay, I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Only thing I'll add is that Daenerys has had Dothraki following her from very early on and we never hear about them causing any trouble in the books nor the show. Now of course a couple dozen Dothraki can't be compared to tens of thousands but I still can't imagine Dany allowing it.
In the show, I would also disagree with the idea that she can't control her dragons since the last time we saw them in battle, she very much seemed in control.
Image

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Dee Stark
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:54 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:37 pm
And regarding the Frey sons... I am saying that she killed Walder Frey's sons right before killing Walder. How did she know which son was involved in the murder of her family? Don't get me wrong... I don't think any Frey is innocent and I hate them
Just making an argument
Oh, yeah! Frey pie!!!! How could I forget? I had assumed that these were some of his older sons, who were complicit in the Red Wedding at the very least. I suppose that could have meant babies, but the sons in the books' Frey pie were all older.
Hahaha!!! Exactly :)
No I don't think they are babies either. What I was trying to say is she knowingly killed his sons not knowing for sure the extent of their involvement.
I probably would have done the same if it were me.. not gonna lie. HAHAHA. I love my family more than anything

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Flayed Potatoes
Posts: 207
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:00 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:54 pm

No I don't think they are babies either. What I was trying to say is she knowingly killed his sons not knowing for sure the extent of their involvement.
I probably would have done the same if it were me.. not gonna lie. HAHAHA. I love my family more than anything
During the siege of Riverrun, the Frey brothers boast publicly to the Blackfish (when they are holding a knife at Edmure's throat) that they killed Catelyn and Talisa, so I assume it would be public knowledge that they were involved. Those two don't seem like the bashful type :lol:

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Flayed Potatoes wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:50 pm
"Everywhere the dragons danced, people died."

Thanks, Potato! That is some fabulous quote you've got there, mixing merriment and horror in the same sentence. I love George.

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:05 pm

Flayed Potatoes wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:50 pm
...And after all of that, should her conquest be successful, imagine being a Westerosi peasant who has to live with the same people who just invaded them. The Dothraki are a nomadic people and have been for centuries. How does she plan on integrating them into Westerosi society in her lifetime? It's not something that just happens over the course of a weekend. The show might skip over these crucial things (as it does), but I fully expect this to be addressed at some point in the books.
The devil is in the details, and in this case, GRRM = the devil. He has said before that he loves exploring the details of what makes a good ruler, not just a good conqueror, and so I too am certain this will be explored to his heart's delight.

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