Theories, Wild Theories, & General Lunacy

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:51 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:46 am
shah2017 wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:08 am
I believe Tyrion will die at the end of Season 8 (bitter sweet ending for one of the show's most popular character).

Jon will end up on the Iron throne as Jaehaerys and married to Daenerys.

The Night King will be the the third dragon rider and originally a Targaryen.
I have to disagree with these three.

Tyrion will likely end up being Hand of The Queen or King whet its all said and done. Dying at the age of 80, as he always wanted.

Jon and Dany on the iron throne with Jon named Jaeherys which is most likely not even his name, this is really close to sweet ending and I can't see George or Weiss and Benioff doing that. She'll bear a living child and die to be with Drogo and Rhaego, as we saw in House of the Undying.

Night King is from the times before the Targaryens, like centuries old. Maybe not as aold as Night's King in the books. Not everybody is a secret Targaryen.
So, please don't throw eggs, especially dragon eggs, but I think that Dany and Tyrion might be villains. Villains we are meant to love, yes, but villains nonetheless. And so maybe anti-villains would be a better term.

(I really hope Dragonbringer doesn't see this because he already hates me. I don't mean any of my ideas to be taken personally, and all are very free to disagree with me, though I hope you won't attack me personally or anyone else for a difference of opinion.)

Dany and Tyrion are bringing hundreds of thousands of the most dangerous peoples Westeros has ever seen straight to this land. Dany has made them all bloodriders, which in some khalasars entitles them to everything the khal has. "Mi casa es su casa." My Seven Kingdoms is your Seven Kingdoms. Rapists. Murderers. Theives. Plunderers. Slavers. How ever will she keep them all in line?

Oh, yeah. Dragons. She's got three dragons. Except she can't control them, either.

From A Dany Chapter, ADwD, pg. 929.
The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns. Daenerys made do with a word and a whip. Mounted on the dragon’s back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again. When she whipped her silver mare on her right flank the mare went left, for a horse’s first instinct is to flee from danger. When she laid the whip across Drogon’s right side he veered right, for a dragon’s first instinct is always to attack. Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned. The whip annoyed him more than it hurt him, she had come to see; his scales had grown harder than horn.
Regarding when Dany called the Dothraki to follow her to Westeros and be her bloodriders, Jack Bender the director says,
At the end of that scene, you should be somewhat roused by her and a little horrified. She’s not Hitler at Nuremburg, but she’s got the power.

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GeraltOfRivia
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:52 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:53 am
Missandei a FM?? hahaha wtf

Yeah I haven't read the books so I don't know much about that. And I know the WW have been around for a thousand years... but what made them come back now... why were they hiding (besides having been defeated by the COF...) Why now?!??! Stronger magic? Or is it because the NK was just poking babies building his army and his Lieutenants and the timing is a coincidence?
White Walkers been sleeping for thousands of years but woke up before the events of Game of Thrones first book or season. We've seen the prologue of Waymar Royce and co going Beyond the Wall only to encounter wights and a white walker.

I think maybe it's some sort of cycle of the white walkers to awake or truly the birth of our heroes is what brought them back, especially if these character sare the new Azor Ahai Reborn, Prince That Was Promised and The Last Hero.

The thing is we don't know what happened in the first war against them , whote drove them away, what pact did they get with CotF and the First Men. Why are they still alive after 8000 years and presumably being defeated? Night King and babies is probably unrelated to it but interesting too. Why only babies, why did Craster of all people agreed to it.
Just a guy full of sarcasm, flaws and himself.

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GeraltOfRivia
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:04 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:51 pm
GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:46 am
shah2017 wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:08 am
I believe Tyrion will die at the end of Season 8 (bitter sweet ending for one of the show's most popular character).

Jon will end up on the Iron throne as Jaehaerys and married to Daenerys.

The Night King will be the the third dragon rider and originally a Targaryen.
I have to disagree with these three.

Tyrion will likely end up being Hand of The Queen or King whet its all said and done. Dying at the age of 80, as he always wanted.

Jon and Dany on the iron throne with Jon named Jaeherys which is most likely not even his name, this is really close to sweet ending and I can't see George or Weiss and Benioff doing that. She'll bear a living child and die to be with Drogo and Rhaego, as we saw in House of the Undying.

Night King is from the times before the Targaryens, like centuries old. Maybe not as aold as Night's King in the books. Not everybody is a secret Targaryen.
So, please don't throw eggs, especially dragon eggs, but I think that Dany and Tyrion might be villains. Villains we are meant to love, yes, but villains nonetheless. And so maybe anti-villains would be a better term.

(I really hope Dragonbringer doesn't see this because he already hates me. I don't mean any of my ideas to be taken personally, and all are very free to disagree with me, though I hope you won't attack me personally or anyone else for a difference of opinion.)

Dany and Tyrion are bringing hundreds of thousands of the most dangerous peoples Westeros has ever seen straight to this land. Dany has made them all bloodriders, which in some khalasars entitles them to everything the khal has. "Mi casa es su casa." My Seven Kingdoms is your Seven Kingdoms. Rapists. Murderers. Theives. Plunderers. Slavers. How ever will she keep them all in line?

Oh, yeah. Dragons. She's got three dragons. Except she can't control them, either.

From A Dany Chapter, ADwD, pg. 929.
The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns. Daenerys made do with a word and a whip. Mounted on the dragon’s back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again. When she whipped her silver mare on her right flank the mare went left, for a horse’s first instinct is to flee from danger. When she laid the whip across Drogon’s right side he veered right, for a dragon’s first instinct is always to attack. Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned. The whip annoyed him more than it hurt him, she had come to see; his scales had grown harder than horn.
Regarding when Dany called the Dothraki to follow her to Westeros and be her bloodriders, Jack Bender the director says,
At the end of that scene, you should be somewhat roused by her and a little horrified. She’s not Hitler at Nuremburg, but she’s got the power.
Tbh Tyrion on the show is more of a hero, book Tyrion is somewhat more darker persona. We saw it in the brothel in Volantis what he did. The difference between the show and the books. I think they did took the dark part of his character and made him just this witty, funny, joke telling character.

Dany is a pretty polarizing figure among the fandom because you can tell she likes it. Weiss and Benioff during commentary for episode 10 in Arya scene asked Lena and Petr Who's enjoying killing her enemies more: Arya, Cersei or Daenerys? Arya won this, but they did mentioned Dany. We saw it in the season 5 while buring nobles of Meereen and with Khals in Vaes Dothrak.
► Show Spoiler
For example Jon is a on the road of a classic hero we know from literature. Dany can be seen as a bit villainy and I understand your sentiment, but I don't think they mean it this way or George for that matter. She has her tendencies and being ruthless. Sometimes, the line between tyranny and ruthlessness is thin. I mean they did mention tyranny in the scripts too in regard to her scene. They're playing with this idea but not fully exploring it. Targaryens are after all complicated people.

I regard sto her scenes with her bloodriders, yeah she condemned Ironborn from pillaging and other activities but yet promised this exact thing to the Dothraki. A bit inconsistent writing on their part or intential thing that was meant. Dothraki are like Wildlings, both considered savages but as long as she controls them, they should be okay. It was a bit disturbing but perhaps not the way we think.
Just a guy full of sarcasm, flaws and himself.

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Dee Stark
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:51 pm

So, please don't throw eggs, especially dragon eggs, but I think that Dany and Tyrion might be villains. Villains we are meant to love, yes, but villains nonetheless. And so maybe anti-villains would be a better term.

(I really hope Dragonbringer doesn't see this because he already hates me. I don't mean any of my ideas to be taken personally, and all are very free to disagree with me, though I hope you won't attack me personally or anyone else for a difference of opinion.)

Dany and Tyrion are bringing hundreds of thousands of the most dangerous peoples Westeros has ever seen straight to this land. Dany has made them all bloodriders, which in some khalasars entitles them to everything the khal has. "Mi casa es su casa." My Seven Kingdoms is your Seven Kingdoms. Rapists. Murderers. Theives. Plunderers. Slavers. How ever will she keep them all in line?


Jon Snow is the ONLY character on the show who has ONLY done anything for others, and hasn't at all demonstrated any villainous traits. And I do not like to use that word because some people misunderstand its meaning... think Sansa in season 6 is a villain (or in general) LOL.... Arya is more of a "villain" then Sansa is.

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:48 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:04 pm
Tbh Tyrion on the show is more of a hero, book Tyrion is somewhat more darker persona. We saw it in the brothel in Volantis what he did. The difference between the show and the books. I think they did took the dark part of his character and made him just this witty, funny, joke telling character.
Downtrodden Tyrion was painful to read in the books. I'm glad we didn't have to watch that in the show - "wherever whores go..." over and over and over. But they could have made Tyrion as funny in Meereen as in King's Landing. That would have been nice.

I personally believe that George is trying to set us up for his ultimate turn by all of this wallowing in self-pity, but I think that the show intends to just really shock us. And I think there is enough there that they'll be able to make it believable. We will just have to wait and see what D&D do!

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QueenofThrones
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Location: New York

Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:50 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:51 pm
So, please don't throw eggs, especially dragon eggs, but I think that Dany and Tyrion might be villains. Villains we are meant to love, yes, but villains nonetheless. And so maybe anti-villains would be a better term.
I seriously doubt Tyrion will be villanous in the show at this point. They haven't set up villanous characterization for him in the show, like at all, so it would be very out in left field. In the (I think incredibly unlikely) event that Dany goes mad/power hungry, Tyrion will break from her first. They've set up a possible break with Dany over the fact that Ellaria killed Myrcella. Still I think it's much more likely that Dany would jettison the Dornish / execute Ellaria rather than breaking with Tyrion.
(I really hope Dragonbringer doesn't see this because he already hates me. I don't mean any of my ideas to be taken personally, and all are very free to disagree with me, though I hope you won't attack me personally or anyone else for a difference of opinion.)
Personally I think "Dany the mad queen" theories are ridiculous but it's nothing personal, do not worry. :p
Dany and Tyrion are bringing hundreds of thousands of the most dangerous peoples Westeros has ever seen straight to this land. Dany has made them all bloodriders, which in some khalasars entitles them to everything the khal has. "Mi casa es su casa." My Seven Kingdoms is your Seven Kingdoms. Rapists. Murderers. Theives. Plunderers. Slavers. How ever will she keep them all in line?
Westeros is already full of savages - I don't believe that the Dothraki are much more awful than your typical Westerosi army - the main exception being slavery (there are plenty of torturers and rapists in Westeros!). Dany demonstrated in her conversation with Yara and Theon that she is 100% anti rape / slavery and won't tolerate it. These Dothraki believe she is a god - the Khal of Khals, the Stallion that mounts the world. They will do as she commands or they are committing blasphemy.

I also think if there was going to be some kind of "Dany's really the bad guy" mega-twist then there wouldn't be only 13 episodes left. To give such a turn its due would require at least 2 full seasons.
Oh, yeah. Dragons. She's got three dragons. Except she can't control them, either.
Why do people always quote only that part, and leave out the part a page later where she actually does control him? I can't find the quote at the moment but basically she realizes she just needs to turn him with her knees instead of using a whip and steers him right down to eat that horse.

I assume that the other dragons will either A) follow Drogon like they did in the Mereen battle last season or B) get riders of their own
Regarding when Dany called the Dothraki to follow her to Westeros and be her bloodriders, Jack Bender the director says,
At the end of that scene, you should be somewhat roused by her and a little horrified. She’s not Hitler at Nuremburg, but she’s got the power.
Power is scary. I like how they added that element of barely concealed terror when it comes to the dragons but I don't think it means that Dany will go bad. We see it as well from Jorah a couple seasons ago, and from Tyrion in the previews for next season...

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Ginevra
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 pm

Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm
Jon Snow is the ONLY character on the show who has ONLY done anything for others, and hasn't at all demonstrated any villainous traits. And I do not like to use that word because some people misunderstand its meaning... think Sansa in season 6 is a villain (or in general) LOL.... Arya is more of a "villain" then Sansa is.
I totally agree about both Arya (tied for my favorite character with Tyrion, ironically) and Sansa have done some really bad stuff. But what about Bran, Hodor, Sam, and Ned? None are perfect, of course, but neither is Jon. I would say all of these are pretty good people who have not done anything too bad.

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Dee Stark
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:04 pm

Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm
Jon Snow is the ONLY character on the show who has ONLY done anything for others, and hasn't at all demonstrated any villainous traits. And I do not like to use that word because some people misunderstand its meaning... think Sansa in season 6 is a villain (or in general) LOL.... Arya is more of a "villain" then Sansa is.
I totally agree about both Arya (tied for my favorite character with Tyrion, ironically) and Sansa have done some really bad stuff. But what about Bran, Hodor, Sam, and Ned? None are perfect, of course, but neither is Jon. I would say all of these are pretty good people who have not done anything too bad.

I was talking about the mains.... I forgot about Bran. But Jon is truly selfless.

But wait, what has Sansa done that has been really bad?!?!
Arya kills people, she killed Frey sons who were "innocent", for example.

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Dee Stark
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Also... Geralt... Where can I read more about Azor Ahai, The Prince who Was Promised, and The Last Hero???

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QueenofThrones
Posts: 108
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Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:59 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 pm
Dee Stark wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:44 pm
Jon Snow is the ONLY character on the show who has ONLY done anything for others, and hasn't at all demonstrated any villainous traits. And I do not like to use that word because some people misunderstand its meaning... think Sansa in season 6 is a villain (or in general) LOL.... Arya is more of a "villain" then Sansa is.
I totally agree about both Arya (tied for my favorite character with Tyrion, ironically) and Sansa have done some really bad stuff. But what about Bran, Hodor, Sam, and Ned? None are perfect, of course, but neither is Jon. I would say all of these are pretty good people who have not done anything too bad.
Sam is my hero. <3

Also Barristan. Worst thing he did was not to leave the KG when Aerys was in charge. But we now know that he backed Rhaegar deposing Aerys which was the right thing to do.

Bran warging Hodor is IMO a villainous act in the book. Not sure it was portrayed that way in the show.

Ned did cause his nephew and wife 16 years of psychological pain for no reason... Also, he forged Robert's will rather than telling him the truth, and in effect sentenced two innocent kids to die (notice I'm not including Joffery - he had it coming for Mycah).

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