Religion in Westeros

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Wimsey
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:53 am

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:56 pm
Also, I've been thinking, in Stark contrast to my own earlier view, that the 7, bc they worship anthropomorphized deities are actually just worshipping humans.
True, and that also makes it more like most religions in our world. Indeed, it seems to be a sort of hybrid between Christianity (three faces for one god) and, say, Norse or Greek or Hindu or even proto-Judaism, in which different gods represented different human archetypes.

What makes the Old Gods odd is that there is no anthropomorphizing or archetyping involved: but, then, given that they are responding to something real (seemingly buffer overflow from the Weirnet!), that might not be surprising.
"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise, don't put it there."
A. P. Chehkov

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:30 am

Wimsey wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:53 am
Raeslewolhn wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:56 pm
Also, I've been thinking, in Stark contrast to my own earlier view, that the 7, bc they worship anthropomorphized deities are actually just worshipping humans.
True, and that also makes it more like most religions in our world. Indeed, it seems to be a sort of hybrid between Christianity (three faces for one god) and, say, Norse or Greek or Hindu or even proto-Judaism, in which different gods represented different human archetypes.

What makes the Old Gods odd is that there is no anthropomorphizing or archetyping involved: but, then, given that they are responding to something real (seemingly buffer overflow from the Weirnet!), that might not be surprising.
Yesss. It feels like a hyperbole of this world. Each of these spectrums (anthropomorphizing, effectiveness, elemental associations and philosophy), represented through the collection of the various gods. (I know in the show def, but also from knowing the list on the wiki from the books).

Here there's semi anthropomorphizing of many gods too. They rarely were described or depicted as humans, but could. Or they were part animal part human, but also nonanthropo gods too, pantheism, animistic religions and additive African religions. We have so many more but the more organized anthropos usually dominate, like the 7 did to the others on Westeros.

So personally, that makes me appreciate weirnet, old gods, dragons, but I was distrustful of Rh'ollor

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Wimsey
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:07 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:30 am
So personally, that makes me appreciate weirnet, old gods, dragons, but I was distrustful of Rh'ollor
I permit myself one crackpot idea per major series: for this one, it is that R'hllor is the remnant of Azor Ahai suspended in magic across time because of whatever he did to end the War thousands of years ago.

That is almost certainly wrong, but the tinfoil fits, so I'm wearing it! :D
"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise, don't put it there."
A. P. Chehkov

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:30 pm

Wimsey wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:07 pm
Raeslewolhn wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:30 am
So personally, that makes me appreciate weirnet, old gods, dragons, but I was distrustful of Rh'ollor
I permit myself one crackpot idea per major series: for this one, it is that R'hllor is the remnant of Azor Ahai suspended in magic across time because of whatever he did to end the War thousands of years ago.

That is almost certainly wrong, but the tinfoil fits, so I'm wearing it! :D
Lol :) I think GoT is ripe for the application of tinfoil. If no other series, this one for sure.

... I've heard that before, or close enough. Like the equivalent of weirnet preservation of consciousness but in the LoAS and fire magic.
This would mean his consciousness will have to come into someone when it's time to bring the Dawn, to be reborn, which is a real prophecy if what you speculate is true. But he isn't yet reborn if he's still communicating from the Rh'ollor place. Therefore we can hope he becomes a dragon!

Especially if that's true, I def see Rh'ollor as the WW equivalent in fire, not the old gods. Most ppl say dragons are the opposite side of the WW coin. IMHO, institutionalized live sacrifice is a greater threat to human civilization. The Targs harness the dragons, they meant to tame them enough so that they're responsible for the damage dragons cause at this pt. It's not the dragons fault they're wild. Theyre animals (which makes them very different from nukes, to which people like to compare them).

But Rh'ollor is a conscious being, presumably. Yes, the priestesses are responsible for the evil done in his name (much like religious violence this world). However, he would be different from Earth gods bc, if this is true, he would have some control over them. He would also have been human and should be held to human morality (even if he has a gods eye view of destiny that I don't and I don't see why he does certain things, in his context he would still be employing a morality).

It would also make sense if magic is real but religion isn't. (That's why the Septons have no power and the 'old gods' have no organization and the most powerful fire bearer (Dany) doesn't follow a religion but believes in magic. Which I really like, personally, but also makes the most sense. (Whether or not this specific speculation we're discussing is true.)

On the other hand, Rh'ollor doesn't even need to exist at all, as a consciousness, for fire and blood magic to work. Mel could still be wrong, they don't have a god. She's anthropomorphizing the real source of her power.

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