Detailed Spoilers - Episode 4 - HBO leak

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Violator
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:14 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:03 am

Fuschia wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:09 pm
After watching the episode, I an less convinced that Friki has any real info other then what has already been leaked.

I loved the Arya-Sansa reunion. It seemed true to their relationship. I'm glad that the show is finally acknowledging Jon and Arya's special bond. Seriously, if you're just a casual show watcher you'd have no clue they had one.

Arya and Brienne sparring was badass but I think they went a little far with Arya's prowess, tbh.

I'm not sure I'm buying the Jon Dany romance, sure they have chemistry but it's not through the roof as some are saying. I think if I didn't know about Boatsex, I wouldn't think it was sexual chemistry.

Why is Jon still hanging around Dragonstone? After Dany says she would support him if he bends the knee. Shouldn't Jon say, "Well, I should return to Winterfell forthwith and discuss this with my banner men."

I mean he has permission to mine Dragonglass and has the offer of an alliance. His job there is done, imo.

Oh, and poor Marya Seaworth, it seems your husband has truly forgotten you.
The Jonaerys is happenong.

Bowchuckawowwooow!

Hit it Barry!

Lyannabanna
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:18 am

Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:24 am

Steel_Wind wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:12 pm
Yeah, it doesn't look like Howland will be making an appearance. I feel so sad about Meera though, because I was feeling quite sure that she would return in S8 :(.
ghost of winterfell wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:33 pm
You will recall that D&D make sure to have Ned pick up Ser Arthur Dayne's sword, Dawn. Ned carries it into Lyanna's chamber and lies it against the foot of the Bed of Blood. The sword is framed in the shot and the camera lingers on it for just the *slightest* moment.

That's Dawn. The Prince Who was Promised will bring the Dawn. That's what he brings. He brings that sword at the appointed hour. So we have to get that sword into Jon's hands.

(snip)

And that means Howland Reed is overwhelmingly likely, at least in the show, to have Dawn. The sword was not returned to Dayne's sister on the show I don't think.

The camera framing and lingering on Dawn at the foot of the bed was no accident. We are going to see that sword again. That means we are seeing Howland Reed, sometime in Season 8 or in the final episode of Season 7, I wager.
I *totally* agree with everything you said (except the part I snipped). I've been thinking about Dawn ever since the ToJ scene and wondering what happened to it. Your solution that HR picked it up makes perfect sense cuz Ned was carrying the baby!

So HR took Dawn to Greywater Watch or (long-shot) to the Daynes. This would explain why it isn't knocking around at WF (unless it's in Lyanna's tomb).

And then there's Lightbringer… In the books, Sam told Aemon that Stannis's sword glowed. Aemon said it wasn't the real deal cuz it wasn't warm. Maybe it feels warm only when the right person wields it? What happened to it after Brienne killed him?

Speaking of Reeds and swords, I really, r-e-a-l-l-y think that Meera has Dark Sister, the VS sword that used to belong to the 3ER. When she, Bran and Hodor entered the cave, she had no sword. ASA the WW drove up, she grabbed it and then didn't use it. We get a good look at it at Benjen's campsite, and she still has it at Eastwatch:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 3pqTjhKa0U
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... lUzNG9vMFE
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 2RNcThDUXM
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ga ... 0712192035

What do you think of the pop theory that Meera is Jon's twin? I agree that she doesn't look *at all* like a cannogman, and she sure looks a *lot* like Jon—right down to the widow's peak. According to wikipedia, only 3% of men have this "hairline anomaly" (81% of women have it).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... jVDa2k1a2c
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 2FVOXFFZUE

Violator
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:14 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:09 am

Lyannabanna wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:24 am
Steel_Wind wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:12 pm
Yeah, it doesn't look like Howland will be making an appearance. I feel so sad about Meera though, because I was feeling quite sure that she would return in S8 :(.
ghost of winterfell wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:33 pm
You will recall that D&D make sure to have Ned pick up Ser Arthur Dayne's sword, Dawn. Ned carries it into Lyanna's chamber and lies it against the foot of the Bed of Blood. The sword is framed in the shot and the camera lingers on it for just the *slightest* moment.

That's Dawn. The Prince Who was Promised will bring the Dawn. That's what he brings. He brings that sword at the appointed hour. So we have to get that sword into Jon's hands.

(snip)

And that means Howland Reed is overwhelmingly likely, at least in the show, to have Dawn. The sword was not returned to Dayne's sister on the show I don't think.

The camera framing and lingering on Dawn at the foot of the bed was no accident. We are going to see that sword again. That means we are seeing Howland Reed, sometime in Season 8 or in the final episode of Season 7, I wager.
I *totally* agree with everything you said (except the part I snipped). I've been thinking about Dawn ever since the ToJ scene and wondering what happened to it. Your solution that HR picked it up makes perfect sense cuz Ned was carrying the baby!

So HR took Dawn to Greywater Watch or (long-shot) to the Daynes. This would explain why it isn't knocking around at WF (unless it's in Lyanna's tomb).

And then there's Lightbringer… In the books, Sam told Aemon that Stannis's sword glowed. Aemon said it wasn't the real deal cuz it wasn't warm. Maybe it feels warm only when the right person wields it? What happened to it after Brienne killed him?

Speaking of Reeds and swords, I really, r-e-a-l-l-y think that Meera has Dark Sister, the VS sword that used to belong to the 3ER. When she, Bran and Hodor entered the cave, she had no sword. ASA the WW drove up, she grabbed it and then didn't use it. We get a good look at it at Benjen's campsite, and she still has it at Eastwatch:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 3pqTjhKa0U
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... lUzNG9vMFE
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 2RNcThDUXM
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ga ... 0712192035

What do you think of the pop theory that Meera is Jon's twin? I agree that she doesn't look *at all* like a cannogman, and she sure looks a *lot* like Jon—right down to the widow's peak. According to wikipedia, only 3% of men have this "hairline anomaly" (81% of women have it).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... jVDa2k1a2c
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7zc7 ... 2FVOXFFZUE
There was one child. That's quite enough revelation.

User avatar
arabian
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:35 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:15 am

I haven't read the leaks, but I did watch this episode. I thought it was AMAZING. Easily the best of the season and one of the best episodes ever. Not one wasted moment, I was on the edge of my seat throughout the whole thing.

- All of the Jon/Dany scenes were good, I finally felt something in them. So yay!

- The 'King Snow, no, that doesn't sound right, King Jon?' was gold from Davos. But every moment with Davos was gold per normal.

- The conversation between Davos and Missandei about why she served Dany was great too.

That stuff was just great though, the really, really fantastic stuff though...

- The callback to Arya getting to Winterfell and trying to enter but being stopped by stupid guards. The difference in how Arya entered was such a brilliant way of showing the difference in her character.

- The little moments between her and Sansa where you saw the the heart and humanity of Arya shining through ("We're still here").

- Sansa realizing that Arya's list of people she's going to kill is real when Bran mentioned it as well.

- Arya and Sansa talking about Joffrey.

- And OHMYGOD! the practice between Brienne and Arya was utter perfection. Brienne's dawning realization at just how good Arya was. Arya's enjoyment at sparring with someone who wasn't going to hurt her, but would give as she got. Sansa watching and seeing just what her sister had become. Littlefinger squirming but with that weasely smile on his face.

- Oh, and that whole finale sequence on the fields of fire was so, so well done. Not just the effects, but the character moments. From Bronn reminding Jaime that he still is owed a castle to laughing out loud at finding out "Dickon's name. Jaime's determination to not leave his name to Bronn leaving his gold behind and actually showing loyalty to Jaime. Tyrion seeing his brother on the battlefield and quietly telling him to flee once, and then even more profanely once again. And, of course, the Dothraki and Drogon just laying waste to the Lannister and Tarly forces. It was outstanding all the way up to that final moment when Drogon nearly burnt Jaime Lannister to a crisp before Bronn pushed him into the water... possibly dying himself in the process? YIKES!

So, so, soooooooooo good. And the special effects of Dany on Drogon and Drogon flying overhead looked better than ever. I can't wait to watch it again on Sunday.
Gendry: You shouldn't insult people that are bigger than you are.
Arya: Then I wouldn't get to insult anyone.

Steel_Wind
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:04 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:37 am

ghost of winterfell wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:29 am

It seems to me like Longclaw is Jon's sword. IDK if he would wield Dawn as well. I have wondered if Dawn will play a role in the final war, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of either Dawn or Howland Reed this season. And we know how D&D like to set things up. I feel like if they were to play a role, they would have been mentioned this season as well. Lets see. Your theory is very plausible and I would be happy if things go down this way.
Perhaps. The problem with Longclaw is that is isn't Jon's sword, not really. It's Jorah Mormont's sword. Longclaw was given to Jorah. He didn't give it to anybody else; he merely left it behind.

So he still has a claim to it, in whole or in part. So there's that possibility. And if Jorah ends up with Jon in episode 6, which seems likely at this stage, then who knows how all that will do down.

Or it may simply be that Jon loses Longclaw while having to flee in Episode 6.

Whatever the case, if there is a reason that Jon takes up a new sword and needs to lose Longclaw, my guess is that we will see that reason in a couple of weeks.

selena
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:02 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:01 am

Steel_Wind wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:37 am
ghost of winterfell wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:29 am

It seems to me like Longclaw is Jon's sword. IDK if he would wield Dawn as well. I have wondered if Dawn will play a role in the final war, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of either Dawn or Howland Reed this season. And we know how D&D like to set things up. I feel like if they were to play a role, they would have been mentioned this season as well. Lets see. Your theory is very plausible and I would be happy if things go down this way.
Perhaps. The problem with Longclaw is that is isn't Jon's sword, not really. It's Jorah Mormont's sword. Longclaw was given to Jorah. He didn't give it to anybody else; he merely left it behind.

So he still has a claim to it, in whole or in part. So there's that possibility. And if Jorah ends up with Jon in episode 6, which seems likely at this stage, then who knows how all that will do down.

Or it may simply be that Jon loses Longclaw while having to flee in Episode 6.

Whatever the case, if there is a reason that Jon takes up a new sword and needs to lose Longclaw, my guess is that we will see that reason in a couple of weeks.
Jeor disowned Jorah, so Jorah has no claim to what USED to be his family's sword..just like he cant march into Bear Island and tell our favorite sassy Baby Bear she isnt in charge anymore.

Steel_Wind
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:04 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:19 am

selena wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:01 am

Jeor disowned Jorah, so Jorah has no claim to what USED to be his family's sword..just like he cant march into Bear Island and tell our favorite sassy Baby Bear she isnt in charge anymore.
Jeor Mormont was already a member of the Night's Watch at the time of Lord Jorah's crimes. So Jeor was no longer in a position to exercise any control over his family or his family's property at all at that point. While it might have been Lady Maege's to give, it wasn't Jeor's to give.

Jorah Mormont fled the North, declared a criminal by Lord Stark. But what Eddard did, either Daenerys or Jon can undo -- and indeed, King Robert himself already pardoned Jorah.

Having been pardoned, his claim to Bear Island is a true one.

So, while your opinion on what Jorah will and won't do is probably (if not undoubtedly) true -- it isn't an accurate reflection of what a pardoned Jorah is entitled to do.

And yes, a pardoned Lord Jorah Mormont is entitled to Bear Island. And Jorah has a claim to a sword that was not Jeor's father's to give away, too.

User avatar
Flayed Potatoes
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:31 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:24 am

Steel_Wind wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:19 am
selena wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:01 am

Jeor disowned Jorah, so Jorah has no claim to what USED to be his family's sword..just like he cant march into Bear Island and tell our favorite sassy Baby Bear she isnt in charge anymore.
Jeor Mormont was already a member of the Night's Watch at the time of Lord Jorah's crimes. So Jeor was no longer in a position to exercise any control over his family or his family's property at all at that point. While it might have been Lady Maege's to give, it wasn't Jeor's to give.

Jorah Mormont fled the North, declared a criminal by Lord Stark. But what Eddard did, either Daenerys or Jon can undo -- and indeed, King Robert himself already pardoned Jorah.

Having been pardoned, his claim to Bear Island is a true one.

So, while your opinion on what Jorah will and won't do is probably (if not undoubtedly) true -- it isn't an accurate reflection of what a pardoned Jorah is entitled to do.

And yes, a pardoned Lord Jorah Mormont is entitled to Bear Island. And Jorah has a claim to a sword that was not Jeor's father's to give away, too.
Maege gave the sword to Jeor, so Jeor had the right to do as he pleased with the sword. He chose to give it to the guy who saved his life.

Longclaw belongs to Jon now. It was given to him fair and square, he earned it and has made great use of it throughout the series. Just like Oathkeeper is now Brienne's sword. By your logic, she should give the sword to Arya or Sansa now. But of course I hardly ever see comments saying how Brienne should give up her sword in comparison to the amount I see about Jon...

Disgraced, exiled, slaver Jorah lost claim to that sword the moment he fled Westeros and shamed his family. For Jorah to ask for the sword now, when he's done nothing for the Mormonts and Westeros compared to Jon, would be the height of hypocrisy.

Fuschia
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:53 pm

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:20 pm

Violator wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:03 am
Fuschia wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:09 pm
After watching the episode, I an less convinced that Friki has any real info other then what has already been leaked.

I loved the Arya-Sansa reunion. It seemed true to their relationship. I'm glad that the show is finally acknowledging Jon and Arya's special bond. Seriously, if you're just a casual show watcher you'd have no clue they had one.

Arya and Brienne sparring was badass but I think they went a little far with Arya's prowess, tbh.

I'm not sure I'm buying the Jon Dany romance, sure they have chemistry but it's not through the roof as some are saying. I think if I didn't know about Boatsex, I wouldn't think it was sexual chemistry.

Why is Jon still hanging around Dragonstone? After Dany says she would support him if he bends the knee. Shouldn't Jon say, "Well, I should return to Winterfell forthwith and discuss this with my banner men."

I mean he has permission to mine Dragonglass and has the offer of an alliance. His job there is done, imo.

Oh, and poor Marya Seaworth, it seems your husband has truly forgotten you.
The Jonaerys is happenong.

Bowchuckawowwooow!

Hit it Barry!
Yes, I know. I suspect it's just my bias against Emilia Clarke's Dany coming through.

I wonder how much of the supplies Danny destroyed, I know the gold made it to King's Landing. Jaime and Tarly talked about stragglers with the last of the harvest. Hopefully that wasn't roasted by Drogon.

Pigeon
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:44 am

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:34 pm

Fuschia wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:20 pm
Violator wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:03 am
Fuschia wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:09 pm
After watching the episode, I an less convinced that Friki has any real info other then what has already been leaked.

I loved the Arya-Sansa reunion. It seemed true to their relationship. I'm glad that the show is finally acknowledging Jon and Arya's special bond. Seriously, if you're just a casual show watcher you'd have no clue they had one.

Arya and Brienne sparring was badass but I think they went a little far with Arya's prowess, tbh.

I'm not sure I'm buying the Jon Dany romance, sure they have chemistry but it's not through the roof as some are saying. I think if I didn't know about Boatsex, I wouldn't think it was sexual chemistry.

Why is Jon still hanging around Dragonstone? After Dany says she would support him if he bends the knee. Shouldn't Jon say, "Well, I should return to Winterfell forthwith and discuss this with my banner men."

I mean he has permission to mine Dragonglass and has the offer of an alliance. His job there is done, imo.

Oh, and poor Marya Seaworth, it seems your husband has truly forgotten you.
The Jonaerys is happenong.

Bowchuckawowwooow!

Hit it Barry!
Yes, I know. I suspect it's just my bias against Emilia Clarke's Dany coming through.

I wonder how much of the supplies Danny destroyed, I know the gold made it to King's Landing. Jaime and Tarly talked about stragglers with the last of the harvest. Hopefully that wasn't roasted by Drogon.
I'm pissed that Bronn lost his gold. And killed his horse. 😕

Jaime sinking into the water was very reminiscent of Tyrion being pulled down by the Stone Men, fading to black. Maybe next we can try it with Cersei? :lol:

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