Dyanna wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:14 pm
It's some years since I read the books but I remember Jon as being intelligent and insightful. Am I misremembering or something? I get the hero side on screen and the humility and honesty but I'm missing the other side of him. I don't recall him being blind to the politics.
My memory is pretty rubbish though
He is very intelligent and insightful. In the books he advises Stannis on how to conduct his campaign in the North and how to deal with the Northern families. He's very much aware of politics, especially in the North: he marries off Alys Karstark to a Thenn ruler so they can retake Karhold and creates a new House, tries to integrate the Wildlings into the NW and manages the tense relationships between the NW-Wildlings-Selyse' men (iirc), sends Sam to the Citadel to train (in the show they gave that idea to Sam), solidifies his authority by executing Slynt, sends Mance to rescue fArya from Winterfell, maps out Stannis' war campaign and helps him gain the mountain clans as allies, mans the castles at the Wall with wildling men and spearwives, takes Wildling hostages, negotiates a loan with the Iron Bank to see the NW through winter. He's also busy making sure the NW has enough supplies and iirc he was planning a ranging Beyond the Wall.
People just focus on his assassination and use that to say he's terrible at leading/ruling/politics, while conveniently ignoring the assassination attempts the likes of Tyrion and Dany had and that they only survived with someone's help.
It's pretty telling that in the books, the mutineers only manage to get to him in the spur of the moment and when Jon is distracted by Wun Wun iirc. Jon could have led the NW perfectly and he STILL would have been killed off because GRRM needs him out of his vows. Fortunately, he created a storyline where Jon learns how to lead and does some things right and some things wrong, as expected from anyone in a leadership position.
If there's one big mistake I think he made was putting all his eggs in Stannis' basket and in such a visible way, without a backup plan should Stannis die. He refuses to entertain the possibility that Stannis might lose because he wants the Boltons defeated so badly. Which is why imo Jon will be drawn into the fighting in the North once he's back.
ghost of winterfell wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:15 pm
I feel like D&D have completely forgotten all the work they did on Jon in seasons 4 and 5. They now seem to think he is nothing more than Ned 2.0 . IDK if it's laziness or they have just lost nterest in his character. At this point, I have resigned myself to see Jon blundering his way to the end.
Like Elybe said, they've never had an interest in his character to begin with.
The one they obviously lost interest in now is Tyrion imo.
elybe wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:04 pm
Now I'm wondering just how much of GRRM's ending D&D will actually include (especially as far as Jon is concerned). They've diverged so drastically from book AND show canon, that I wouldn't be surprised to hear they changed their mind and are doing their own ending. What GRRM has in mind might not even fit the characters on the show anymore, for all we know. At this point, what use is all of the buildup about Jon's background when the character is getting trashed like this...
I wish they had just let him go south in season 6 and live his life like he wanted to. It would have been a much more dignified ending than whatever it is they're doing now.