Chaos is a ladder...

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Dgskdive
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Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:07 pm

So how much to you think Little Fingers butt tightened up after hearing Bran make that statement? lol

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Grandmaester Flash
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Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:43 pm

As an old acquaintance of mine used to say,
"I bet his arse went: tanner, half a crown".

(Only British people of a certain age will be able to work that one out) :twisted:

Lluid
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Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:43 am

The more I think about this scene in S07E04, the more I am perplex about its meaning, or Bran's intentions.

First, I consider certain that Bran saw LF (Little Finger) say this sentence in his "visions" offscreen. It can't be a coincidence.

However, we have no idea whether Bran saw other visions of LF. Did he see LF betraying Ned in King's Landing ? That would be an event he could want to "watch". But as he repeats, he must "see better".

In any case, with the "Chaos is a ladder" vision Bran should be aware that LF is dangerous. But surprisingly, by repeating LF's words he's exciting LF's interest in him, almost warning him, which he probably shouldn't.

So why would Bran say that ? Is it because he didn't really think about it, talked as it surfaced from his memory ? Or is it because he's already starting to play a game with LF, with the ultimate goal of using LF skills for the greater good (who knows how) or maybe just eliminating LF without loosing the vale support ?

By rewatching the "Chaos is a ladder" scene in S03E06, I noticed that LF cites "love" in the list of "illusions" that lead some people to fall, and claims "only the ladder is real". It reinforces my intuition that he doesn't really "love" Sansa, but claims it so that he can mislead her. Now Bran should be aware of that too. Thoughts ?

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Raeslewolhn
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 am

I agree, bran is aware. He's not playing per se. I dont think there's strategy but like he said about the dagger it doesn't matter. Everyone LF is trying to manipulate is onto him. Bran knows he's gng down anyway and is focused on other issues
Last edited by Raeslewolhn on Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dgskdive
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 am

Lluid wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:43 am
So why would Bran say that ? Is it because he didn't really think about it, talked as it surfaced from his memory ? Or is it because he's already starting to play a game with LF, with the ultimate goal of using LF skills for the greater good (who knows how) or maybe just eliminating LF without loosing the vale support ?
I am of the mind that it came to him. Something he saw, but didnt remember he saw and it came back to him and he just kind of said it as he remembered it. Which scared LF and you are right, not something Bran should have said out loud. Although, he (Bran) may already know how any interaction with LF will play out. Has he already seen LF's death? Its hard to know what Bran knows at this point. I was under the impression that Bran could only see what was near the Weirwood trees. I dont think there are Weirwoods in Kings Landing and that is where LF said "Chaos is a Ladder. I could be wrong about no Weirwoods in KL though, but pretty sure it was mentioned that all the Weirwoods in the south had been cut down or burned by the First Men before they made piece with the CotF.
Lluid wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:43 am
By rewatching the "Chaos is a ladder" scene in S03E06, I noticed that LF cites "love" in the list of "illusions" that lead some people to fall, and claims "only the ladder is real". It reinforces my intuition that he doesn't really "love" Sansa, but claims it so that he can mislead her. Now Bran should be aware of that too. Thoughts ?
True love for Sansa is not on LF's mind. He loves what he thinks a marriage to her could get him...with Jon out of the way that is. LF wants the Iron Throne, and being the Warden of the North is a good start for him. I cant wait until he dies.

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Raeslewolhn
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:57 am

Dgskdive wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 am
Lluid wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:43 am
So why would Bran say that ? Is it because he didn't really think about it, talked as it surfaced from his memory ? Or is it because he's already starting to play a game with LF, with the ultimate goal of using LF skills for the greater good (who knows how) or maybe just eliminating LF without loosing the vale support ?
I am of the mind that it came to him. Something he saw, but didnt remember he saw and it came back to him and he just kind of said it as he remembered it. Which scared LF and you are right, not something Bran should have said out loud. Although, he (Bran) may already know how any interaction with LF will play out. Has he already seen LF's death? Its hard to know what Bran knows at this point. I was under the impression that Bran could only see what was near the Weirwood trees. I dont think there are Weirwoods in Kings Landing and that is where LF said "Chaos is a Ladder. I could be wrong about no Weirwoods in KL though, but pretty sure it was mentioned that all the Weirwoods in the south had been cut down or burned by the First Men before they made piece with the CotF.
Lluid wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:43 am
By rewatching the "Chaos is a ladder" scene in S03E06, I noticed that LF cites "love" in the list of "illusions" that lead some people to fall, and claims "only the ladder is real". It reinforces my intuition that he doesn't really "love" Sansa, but claims it so that he can mislead her. Now Bran should be aware of that too. Thoughts ?
True love for Sansa is not on LF's mind. He loves what he thinks a marriage to her could get him...with Jon out of the way that is. LF wants the Iron Throne, and being the Warden of the North is a good start for him. I cant wait until he dies.
This

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Not Littlefinger
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:00 am

Doesn't matter whether Bran knows or not, because I don't think he will care either way. We saw how disconnected he was when saying goodbye to Meera, and we know that he doesn't really consider himself a Stark anymore. He's the three eyed raven, he's got bigger fish to fry, such as the incoming night king and army of the dead. To him, LF is just another lord with his petty squabbles.

As to whether or not he knows, I don't think he does. From what we've seen so far, his visions have been scattered and random, and LF saying "chaos" probably triggered a half-remembered dream in his mind and that's what he thought of.

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Ginevra
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:47 am

Grandmaester Flash wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:43 pm
As an old acquaintance of mine used to say,
"I bet his arse went: tanner, half a crown".

(Only British people of a certain age will be able to work that one out) :twisted:
Drawing in those cheeks by half the diameter of a crown? (Not British.)

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Grandmaester Flash
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:02 pm

Ginevra wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:47 am
Drawing in those cheeks by half the diameter of a crown? (Not British.)
Not quite. It's a reference to the relative size of the, er, adjacent orifice.

Half a crown was the largest pre-decimal British coin. A tanner was slang for a sixpenny coin, which was considerably smaller.

Image

Lluid
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Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:32 pm

Dgskdive wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 am
Has he already seen LF's death? Its hard to know what Bran knows at this point. I was under the impression that Bran could only see what was near the Weirwood trees.
Based on what he said in S07E03, Bran "can see everthing that's hever happened to everyone, everything that's happening right now". So he probably can't see the future, but he can see anything even far from Weirwood trees. It's probably different in the books.
We share the same impression that Bran doesn't know yet how dangerous LF can be. And that's good because it makes Bran and his sisters vulnerable still. Else that wouldn't be interesting.

About LF's plan, it's hard to see what he could do. Maybe he could find some info in the copies of old raven messages and use it to his advantage ? I'm betting that he'll invite Robin in Winterfell and convince him that he must marry a Stark girl. Without precising whom, because such a choice could bring chaos in the "wolf pack". It doesn't seem diabolic enough though.
(sorry if the use of "whom" above is incorrect, I really can't tell)

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