Religion in Westeros

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evenwind
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Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:44 pm

So, Religion (always fun to bring up in a bar full of strangers).

I’d like to believe that in a world as detailed as ASOIAF, GRRM has good reasons for describing the things he does - in this case the various religions. The thing is, I don’t remember any time that the Faith of the Seven, the dominate religion of Westeros after all, has shown any kind of unworldly/magical power (and please remind me if I’m forgetting something). R’hllor has power. The Old Gods have power. The Many-Faced God has power. The Drowned God has power. The Faith of the Seven seems to just have bureaucracy.

I’ve read that GRRM has loosely based the Faith of the Seven on the medieval Christian Church. And also that GRRM considers himself to be a lapsed Catholic. So it’s possible, I guess, that the apparent lack of magic only from the New Gods is a subtle dig at the Catholic Church. But I’m hoping that there’s a lot more going on and that the apparent weakness of the New Gods is important to the endgame.

Anybody have any insights?

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QueenofThrones
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Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:43 pm

I tend to think that none of the gods have power. Instead, people sometimes are able to tap into various magic sources, then they ascribe that to one god or another.

So I suppose the question then is why do the followers of the seven seem to not have magic and/or are not able to tap into said magic.

Well maybe it's a bit of a chicken or egg thing. Maybe some religions developed as a way to rationalize the existence of magic. Meanwhile others like the religion of the 7 are more like Earthly religion - they exist just to give mundane existence meaning...

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Chilli
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Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:09 am

Maybe it's because of the Maesters of the Citadel, they are against magic. Maester Luwin never took Bran serious. We will see next season with Sam.

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Not Littlefinger
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Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:43 pm

evenwind wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:44 pm
I’d like to believe that in a world as detailed as ASOIAF, GRRM has good reasons for describing the things he does - in this case the various religions. The thing is, I don’t remember any time that the Faith of the Seven, the dominate religion of Westeros after all, has shown any kind of unworldly/magical power (and please remind me if I’m forgetting something). R’hllor has power. The Old Gods have power. The Many-Faced God has power. The Drowned God has power. The Faith of the Seven seems to just have bureaucracy.
When do we see supernatural power from the Drowned God? I'm drawing a blank.

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evenwind
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Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:26 pm

Not Littlefinger wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:43 pm
When do we see supernatural power from the Drowned God? I'm drawing a blank.
In GoT they showed that the annointing of the new king involved Euron actually being drowned, pulled out of the water and coming back to life. So, possibly something similar to the Red God's powers - but maybe not. Also, although I don't think there was much in the way of details, Patchface (in the books) seems to have been drowned and brought back - but again, maybe not.
Last edited by evenwind on Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Meg22
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Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Perhaps it's like the Ian McShane character suggests, that it's the same god but with different names. They all seem to be working for the same objective.

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Not Littlefinger
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:38 pm

evenwind wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:26 pm
Not Littlefinger wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:43 pm
When do we see supernatural power from the Drowned God? I'm drawing a blank.
In GoT they showed the that annointing of the new king involved Euron actually being drowned, pulled out of the water and coming back to life. So, possibly something similar to the Red God's powers - but maybe not. Also, although I don't think there was much in the way of details, Patchface (in the books) seems to have been drowned and brought back - but again, maybe not.
It depends on how you define "drowned" I suppose... If he actually died, then that would be a supernatural power bringing him back to life. But I was under the impression that he was only held underwater until he passed out, in which case he would have been revived using basic CPR/water drainage methods.

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evenwind
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:47 pm

Not Littlefinger wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:38 pm
It depends on how you define "drowned" I suppose... If he actually died, then that would be a supernatural power bringing him back to life. But I was under the impression that he was only held underwater until he passed out, in which case he would have been revived using basic CPR/water drainage methods.
I agree. I'm trying to remember how they showed it in GoT. What I'm picturing is drowned Euron lying on his back on the rocky beach with everybody watching but nobody touching him. After a bit, he spat out water and then they came to him. Or I'm mis-remembering it.

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Not Littlefinger
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:51 pm

evenwind wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:47 pm
Not Littlefinger wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:38 pm
It depends on how you define "drowned" I suppose... If he actually died, then that would be a supernatural power bringing him back to life. But I was under the impression that he was only held underwater until he passed out, in which case he would have been revived using basic CPR/water drainage methods.
I agree. I'm trying to remember how they showed it in GoT. What I'm picturing is drowned Euron lying on his back on the rocky beach with everybody watching but nobody touching him. After a bit, he spat out water and then they came to him. Or I'm mis-remembering it.
I think you're right, not that I'm thinking about it. I don't think you would just "wake up" from being drowned while having lungs full of water. That would have to be supernatural. But I really don't know for sure.

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Grandmaester Flash
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:03 pm

Meg22 wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:36 pm
Perhaps it's like the Ian McShane character suggests, that it's the same god but with different names. They all seem to be working for the same objective.
That's how I interpreted the Many-Faced God, given that all kinds of gods are represented in the House of Black & White.

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