Have I gone too far with my butt hurtedness over S6?

LatrineDiggerBrian
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:35 am

Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:41 am

I was just sitting here thinking tonight: we're 10 days away and I've barely paid any mind to the new GoT season. I only periodically check the headlines on this site and sometimes post a comment, but that's about it. Compare this to the offseason between S3 and S4, when I rewatched the S1-S3 too many times to count and bought all the DVDs and watched every special feature and listened to every commentary. It was the height of my fandom, and I honest to God had never been so obsessed with anything in my life. The off seasons before S5 and S6 were similar, if only a little less intense. Like a huge dork, I timed my rewatch of the earlier seasons with the exact amount of days before the premiere so I would've watched the last episode of the previous season the day before the finale.

Fast forward to now and like I've said, GoT is barely on my radar. It's a shocking turn of events for me. I mean, this was the show that inspired me to become a writer. It was the show I could not stop talking about or thinking about, and now I'm not even especially looking forward to the premiere.

Anyone who has read my comments on S6 in the articles knows my opinion on it and I don't feel like repeating it. But I just wonder if I've gone too far, or was I legitimately scarred by S6? Is the story so far beyond reproach for me that it cannot be salvaged? I don't think so. And there were plenty of things that I loved about S6, but there were also so many colossal disappointments that just overshadowed everything for me.

I wonder if S7 can win me back? I tend to lean towards no, I think the show's larger audience coupled with being off the books point to much less dynamic story telling. Plus, I really really really hate zombies, I hate the White Walkers. A story where the political intrigue has been the most fascinating aspect now turns into a great war against some mindless, not scary enemy. I don't know though, is there a chance S7 could blow me away? Yeah I guess, but I'm only putting it at about 30%. We'll see, I hope to be pleasantly surprised as I'm going in with low expectations.

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Needle
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:48 pm

Now that the show is sort of seperating itself from the books (we can only wait for TWOW to confirm or deny this) obviously the characters are going to be a bit weaker, and the focus is mainly going to be on the visual stuff. It's honestly bound to happen, since they don't have GRRM's genius writing to rely on. But is season 7 going to be terrible? Absolutely not. I have my own critiques on the show, and some of the adaptation choices they made make me a bit mad, but that still gets weighed down by other things I find praiseworthy. People choose to focus only on the bad things, they forget that the show does have some incredible moments. Some of which we didn't even get in the books (Arya and Tywin, Robert and Cersei's private scenes, hell, they even made Gendry a much more important character on the show IMO).

Truth is, no matter how much of a good writer the screenwriter is, book to movie/tv adaptations are never perfect. Always keep in mind that it could've been so much worse.
Say a magical genie gives me a coin and gives me a chance to toss it. If it lands on one side the show will change into something 100% better, but if it lands on the opposite side, we would get the ASOIAF equivalent of Shyamalan's Avatar adaptation, I would throw the coin away and never look back. We should be more content with what we have. As long as we agree that the book-canon is always more reliable than the show-canon, I don't see any reason to hate the show.

And I have to disagree with you on the white walkers thing. Nearly every period drama focuses solely on politics, but GoT and ASOIAF have magic and legendary creatures in it, so it's kinda obvious the story will turn into fighting beasts rather than rebelling against an evil queen. Not to mention many conflicts in the story emerge because of realistic human acts. Betrayal, dishonesty, manipulation, selfishness, these are all real human issues we still have today. Cersei, and the majority of the world, ignoring the white walker threat is another example how selfish and pessimistic people can be. Jon, The Watch, the wildlings, they all tell the truth, they're all warning everybody, but instead of listening to them, the rest of the lords keep themselves busy in pointless things such as politics. GRRM uses many of his realistic ideologies in the books. Wars lead to casualties and pain, the brave and honest hero doesn't always win, and the selfish meddling of the rich only hurts the poor.
In fact I'm willing to bet that the threat of the white walkers is only going to make politics a much more discussed topic, especially in season 7. Jon will need to ally with Dany, and there's going to be the whole Euron and Cersei thing going on. Politics are an important factor to the story, it won't disappear.
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Flayed Potatoes
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Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:44 pm

Looking at the season 7 trailers, I don't know if the season can win you over. There's going to be much more emphasis on action scenes/battles than on politics/characters. And to be fair, the books will head in roughly the same direction and the Whitewalker plot will gain more and more traction. But think of the characters we have left and think that it might be possible for some to be more preoccupied with politics than humanity's survival... those are the characters who will cause trouble in an already serious situation.

The quality of the writing has also been declining post-season 4 and you can tell that: 1. D&D are struggling without any books left to guide them and 2. D&D want to end the show so they can move on to other projects and that means the show will have a lot of rushed storylines and plot holes, as the writers try to hit whatever key element GRRM put down in his outline. However, think that not all characters can fight Whitewalkers. There has to be something left to do for the characters who aren't doing that. Also, just because there is a zombie apocalypse coming, that doesn't mean that all characters will lose sight of the political aspect of the story and the fight for the iron throne. Greed and the thirst for power exist in many characters even in the most dire of situations.

Think that that unlike most US shows, GoT has a clear ending point (there's no meandering and we're going to get some closure, as the book series will probably never be finished). The writing really is the only obvious weak spot and the show is relying on the goodwill from early seasons, when the writing for the majority of the characters was decent and character development existed. But you only have 7 episodes this season and 6 in the last one, so it's not a huge amount of your time that's wasted.

At this point, I'd say that you can try watching the rest of the show to at least get some kind of ending. It's not like it has a lot of seasons left and you've already made it this far. Might as well. And yes keep your expectations low. Better safe than sorry.

Meg22
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:24 am

Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:26 pm

I'm of the opinion that series 6 was less satisfying because it introduced some elements from the books that didn't work there either. eg Sand Snakes. For me, book GOT became tedious because the world got too big and the characters too numerous when it should have been drawing to a conclusion. TV GOT worked in the early seasons because book GOT did.

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Jack Bauer 24
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Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:29 am

Meg22 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:26 pm
I'm of the opinion that series 6 was less satisfying because it introduced some elements from the books that didn't work there either. eg Sand Snakes. For me, book GOT became tedious because the world got too big and the characters too numerous when it should have been drawing to a conclusion. TV GOT worked in the early seasons because book GOT did.
Sandsnakes were introduced in S5.

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QueenofThrones
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Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:42 am

Meg22 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:26 pm
I'm of the opinion that series 6 was less satisfying because it introduced some elements from the books that didn't work there either. eg Sand Snakes. For me, book GOT became tedious because the world got too big and the characters too numerous when it should have been drawing to a conclusion. TV GOT worked in the early seasons because book GOT did.
I agree that S5 struggled because the book material was poor. However the non adapted material in S5 was good, IMO, as was most of S6.

I honestly do believe that a lot of people who are disappointed by S6 would have been disappointed by the similar events in the books if they had come out first. There are some who enjoyed GoT purely as an adaptation of a story they knew inside and out, and enjoyed it thusly as far as it matched their imagination.

Moving into S6 these same people had expectations about what they THOUGHT would happen but instead of being based on GRRMs actual written story (which of course doesn't exist) it was based on endless fan speculations... most of which turned out to be wrong. So then unlike with the adapted seasons there is a feeling of dissonance - "that's not what I thought would happen ARGH!" Well - that's how asoiaf has always been. During book 2 I thought Dany and Robb would get married (lol). I am happy to have been wrong and been surprised while reading. And season 6 was delightful in how many surprises (both good and bad) that there were.

All this is to say if you don't like the new material then You don't like it. It may just be how you experience being a fan. But maybe it would actually help you enjoyment if you attempt to engage with it as you would any other show you might choose to watch?

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Dee Stark
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Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:20 am

QueenofThrones wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:42 am
Meg22 wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:26 pm
I'm of the opinion that series 6 was less satisfying because it introduced some elements from the books that didn't work there either. eg Sand Snakes. For me, book GOT became tedious because the world got too big and the characters too numerous when it should have been drawing to a conclusion. TV GOT worked in the early seasons because book GOT did.
I agree that S5 struggled because the book material was poor. However the non adapted material in S5 was good, IMO, as was most of S6.

I honestly do believe that a lot of people who are disappointed by S6 would have been disappointed by the similar events in the books if they had come out first. There are some who enjoyed GoT purely as an adaptation of a story they knew inside and out, and enjoyed it thusly as far as it matched their imagination.

Moving into S6 these same people had expectations about what they THOUGHT would happen but instead of being based on GRRMs actual written story (which of course doesn't exist) it was based on endless fan speculations... most of which turned out to be wrong. So then unlike with the adapted seasons there is a feeling of dissonance - "that's not what I thought would happen ARGH!" Well - that's how asoiaf has always been. During book 2 I thought Dany and Robb would get married (lol). I am happy to have been wrong and been surprised while reading. And season 6 was delightful in how many surprises (both good and bad) that there were.

All this is to say if you don't like the new material then You don't like it. It may just be how you experience being a fan. But maybe it would actually help you enjoyment if you attempt to engage with it as you would any other show you might choose to watch?
Very well said.

Also, after 5 seasons, there is no need for character development, things come together, we get solutions and endings leading up to the final act.

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:35 pm

LatrineDiggerBrian wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:41 am
I was just sitting here thinking tonight: we're 10 days away and I've barely paid any mind to the new GoT season. I only periodically check the headlines on this site and sometimes post a comment, but that's about it. Compare this to the offseason between S3 and S4, when I rewatched the S1-S3 too many times to count and bought all the DVDs and watched every special feature and listened to every commentary. It was the height of my fandom, and I honest to God had never been so obsessed with anything in my life. The off seasons before S5 and S6 were similar, if only a little less intense. Like a huge dork, I timed my rewatch of the earlier seasons with the exact amount of days before the premiere so I would've watched the last episode of the previous season the day before the finale.

Fast forward to now and like I've said, GoT is barely on my radar. It's a shocking turn of events for me. I mean, this was the show that inspired me to become a writer. It was the show I could not stop talking about or thinking about, and now I'm not even especially looking forward to the premiere.

Anyone who has read my comments on S6 in the articles knows my opinion on it and I don't feel like repeating it. But I just wonder if I've gone too far, or was I legitimately scarred by S6? Is the story so far beyond reproach for me that it cannot be salvaged? I don't think so. And there were plenty of things that I loved about S6, but there were also so many colossal disappointments that just overshadowed everything for me.

I wonder if S7 can win me back? I tend to lean towards no, I think the show's larger audience coupled with being off the books point to much less dynamic story telling. Plus, I really really really hate zombies, I hate the White Walkers. A story where the political intrigue has been the most fascinating aspect now turns into a great war against some mindless, not scary enemy. I don't know though, is there a chance S7 could blow me away? Yeah I guess, but I'm only putting it at about 30%. We'll see, I hope to be pleasantly surprised as I'm going in with low expectations.
I think you can get wonback! I lapsed in fan love between 5 and 6. I was stoked to see some things,and I missed Bran plots, but it wasn't really on my radar between 5 and 6, and I thought most of S5 was really slow and meh for half the episodes, despite my intense love in s1-4. But I'm totallllllly stoked for S7!

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Raeslewolhn
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am

Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:39 pm

Needle wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:48 pm

And I have to disagree with you on the white walkers thing. Nearly every period drama focuses solely on politics, but GoT and ASOIAF have magic and legendary creatures in it, so it's kinda obvious the story will turn into fighting beasts rather than rebelling against an evil queen. Not to mention many conflicts in the story emerge because of realistic human acts. Betrayal, dishonesty, manipulation, selfishness, these are all real human issues we still have today. Cersei, and the majority of the world, ignoring the white walker threat is another example how selfish and pessimistic people can be. Jon, The Watch, the wildlings, they all tell the truth, they're all warning everybody, but instead of listening to them, the rest of the lords keep themselves busy in pointless things such as politics. GRRM uses many of his realistic ideologies in the books. Wars lead to casualties and pain, the brave and honest hero doesn't always win, and the selfish meddling of the rich only hurts the poor.
I have to agree. This is one of the things I love about the show. I like following the GoT version of political drama,but the fantasy is what keeps me hooked. Maybe the WW could've been done better, but I love them.

... Also, I like the large number of characters and the wideness of the world. It is an homage to the fantasy genre itself!

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Needle
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:14 pm

Raeslewolhn wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:39 pm
I have to agree. This is one of the things I love about the show. I like following the GoT version of political drama,but the fantasy is what keeps me hooked. Maybe the WW could've been done better, but I love them.

... Also, I like the large number of characters and the wideness of the world. It is an homage to the fantasy genre itself!
Exactly, the massive amount of characters, places and history makes it all feel so much more alive. When you research about a city, a certain family or even simple stories told by commonfolk, you feel as if you're reading actual history. Fantasy stories should have a large universe, otherwise things can get boring very quickly. ASOIAF/GoT have such a large amount of content, you can release a book/show every single year and you'll still have enough storylines for decades.
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